UKIP to the Left of the Tories?

Edward Longshanks · 29-12-2006, 03:20 PM

Guess who wrote this:-

"......UKIP is a moderate, non-racist, neo-liberal party, it is to the LEFT of the Tories on most key issues such as immigration, ID cards and the war on Iraq"

GUARDIAN!

ops: Unlimited Board 6/5/05

Answers on a postcard please.

John Carter · 29-12-2006, 03:26 PM

Ooops. Someone doesn't know the difference between left and right.

mkpdavies · 29-12-2006, 04:02 PM

Depends on your definition of left and right.

To a Guardian reader and much of the brainwashed public left =

anti-war
anti-ID cards
Fair immigration for all, instead of just white European preference.

Neo-liberal is the term UKIP itself used to describe itself, in the Gladstonian sense.

So I would say that for the target audience, the above statement is correct.

Now if you want to discuss what REALLY is right and left, then we are into the realms of the BNP being a far left party etc. Would a Guardian reader or even a BNP member agree with that? Nope.

But it's true.

Edward Longshanks · 29-12-2006, 05:13 PM

But this thread isn't about the BNP. It's about UKIP being defined as being to the left of the Tories, a statement made on the The Guardian's forum by a senior member of UKIP. Would UKIP's average member agree with it or oppose it. Personally, I think most would be appalled.

Now who do you think said it? :wink:

mkpdavies · 29-12-2006, 05:25 PM

I would agree UKIP on those issues on the mainstream scale is left to the Tories.

StGeorge · 29-12-2006, 08:31 PM

I'd agree with the definition that economically the BNP are left-wing.

Britannist · 29-12-2006, 08:44 PM

Is being anti-ID cards (as most of us on the forum are) 'left wing'?

Perhaps some people say it's left wing because leftist organisations like Liberty (formerly the National Council for Civil Liberties) or the leftist Liberal Dim Party were among the first to oppose proposals for ID cards.

I might argue that opposing ID cards is right wing in the libertarian sense because the libertarian pro-freedom right wing are against a powerful 'Big Brother' state (such as the one Labour are trying to create with their expensive ID card plan backed up by databases we are all going to be forced to put out details on).

People from all parts of the 'political spectrum' seem to be against ID cards.

Alex McKee · 29-12-2006, 08:49 PM

There are also people from different parts of the political spectrum for/against all sorts of different issues: further EU integration, ID Cards, War in Iraq et cetera.

The concepts of right and left are almost completely useless in the modern world; rather more important is the Libertarian/Authoritarian scale.

eublues · 29-12-2006, 08:49 PM

If we are sceptical of "public-private partnerships" and PFI rip-offs, and we don't automatically assume that the public sector can't be run effectively and efficiently, then we must be "left" of the Tories and Labour on some things at least. That's fine by me.

spaman · 30-12-2006, 10:52 AM

Wasn't there some agreement way back that UKIP was not going to fall into this trap of being nailed to one side of the political spectrum...

We're floaters, and we pick the best policies based on common sense, rather than from an ingrained attitude to whether we follow left or right wing politics..

29-12-2006, 03:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
Edward Longshanks Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bucks Posts: 625	UKIP to the Left of the Tories? Guess who wrote this:- "......UKIP is a moderate, non-racist, neo-liberal party, it is to the LEFT of the Tories on most key issues such as immigration, ID cards and the war on Iraq" GUARDIAN! ops: Unlimited Board 6/5/05 Answers on a postcard please.

29-12-2006, 04:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,112 Party: Libertarian Party	Depends on your definition of left and right. To a Guardian reader and much of the brainwashed public left = anti-war anti-ID cards Fair immigration for all, instead of just white European preference. Neo-liberal is the term UKIP itself used to describe itself, in the Gladstonian sense. So I would say that for the target audience, the above statement is correct. Now if you want to discuss what REALLY is right and left, then we are into the realms of the BNP being a far left party etc. Would a Guardian reader or even a BNP member agree with that? Nope. But it's true. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

29-12-2006, 05:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,112 Party: Libertarian Party	I would agree UKIP on those issues on the mainstream scale is left to the Tories. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

29-12-2006, 08:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	Opposition to ID cards is not left wing Is being anti-ID cards (as most of us on the forum are) 'left wing'? Perhaps some people say it's left wing because leftist organisations like Liberty (formerly the National Council for Civil Liberties) or the leftist Liberal Dim Party were among the first to oppose proposals for ID cards. I might argue that opposing ID cards is right wing in the libertarian sense because the libertarian pro-freedom right wing are against a powerful 'Big Brother' state (such as the one Labour are trying to create with their expensive ID card plan backed up by databases we are all going to be forced to put out details on). People from all parts of the 'political spectrum' seem to be against ID cards.

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29-12-2006, 03:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
John Carter Uber Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: On Sabbatical Posts: 5,110	Ooops. Someone doesn't know the difference between left and right.

29-12-2006, 05:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
Edward Longshanks Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bucks Posts: 625	But this thread isn't about the BNP. It's about UKIP being defined as being to the left of the Tories, a statement made on the The Guardian's forum by a senior member of UKIP. Would UKIP's average member agree with it or oppose it. Personally, I think most would be appalled. Now who do you think said it? :wink:

29-12-2006, 08:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
StGeorge Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 417	I'd agree with the definition that economically the BNP are left-wing.

29-12-2006, 08:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	There are also people from different parts of the political spectrum for/against all sorts of different issues: further EU integration, ID Cards, War in Iraq et cetera. The concepts of right and left are almost completely useless in the modern world; rather more important is the Libertarian/Authoritarian scale.

29-12-2006, 08:49 PM	#9 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,122	If we are sceptical of "public-private partnerships" and PFI rip-offs, and we don't automatically assume that the public sector can't be run effectively and efficiently, then we must be "left" of the Tories and Labour on some things at least. That's fine by me.

30-12-2006, 10:52 AM	#10 (permalink)
spaman Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 894	Wasn't there some agreement way back that UKIP was not going to fall into this trap of being nailed to one side of the political spectrum... We're floaters, and we pick the best policies based on common sense, rather than from an ingrained attitude to whether we follow left or right wing politics..