Unionist

And that is not something that I say easily. :evil:

mkpdavies

Thatch wanted ID cards, handed over power to an unlected body.

Puts her pretty close the Hitler on that score for me, though I accept she hated Miners more than Jews.

__________________
http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/
http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/
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My ignore list

Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

Unionist

True, they have all handed powers over to the EU.

freedom & democracy 4

UKIP liberal

Unionist

I think some of the discussions on ideology in different threads are identifying two very distinct strands, namely, Collectivism versus Individualism. Collectivists elevate the group above the individual, whether the group is the nation (Nationalists) or class interests (Socialists). Some mangage to combine the two in "the people" (Populists). Collectivists may therefore abrogate free markets in the (perceived) national interest, adopt measures to promote welfare/redistribution or support protectionism.

Individualists, by contrast, elevate individual freedom and liberty above the group or nation. They see free markets, free trade, low taxes and small government as necessary for freedom as well as economic efficiency. Individualists would include Classical Liberals and Libertarians.

I don't believe that you can separate economic and political freedom and I don't agree with the assumptions of the chart posted earlier in this thread:

http://planicie-heroica.weblog.com.p...swithnames.gif

The reason I think this is wrong is that collectivism and authoritarianism are bedfellows, just as individualism and libertarianism go together. An authoritarian regime cannot co-exist indefinitely with a free market economy since people become used to exercising more choice and are empowered as individuals. The temptation of an authoritarian regime will always be to curb the market and restrict the free flow of ideas in the media. Similarly, the notion of a libertarian form of government with state control of the economy does not make sense since it necessarily involves things like curbing choice, redistributing income and central planning.

So I posit that the fundamental divide is between Collectivists and Individualists.

Within each camp there are important differences. Among Collectivists, for example, British Nationalists and English Nationalists may find some common ground but they are working towards different goals, while Socialists and Nationalists may agree on nationalisation and protectionism but Socialists will reject the ethnic/racial assumptions of some Nationalists. Among Individualists, Classical Liberals would place much more emphasis on the moral boundaries of individual actions, support the family and accept the basic framework of the liberal democratic nation state, whereas Libertarians assert maximum individual feeedom even where this may undermine traditional norms and values.

There are of course many with contradictory tendencies and political parties will tend to combine elements to form an electoral coalition. There is nothing wrong with this per se but it does mean that goals can become confused and we can end up with creeping authoritarianism (e.g., the 'nanny state') from apparently benign social objectives (such as a healthier population).

David Agnew

I am a libertarian with regard to adults, as I believe that if consenting adults wish to (for example) take currently illegal drugs, engage in homosexual sado-masochism, engage in bare knuckle boxing, or smoke in confined spaces, it is not the job of the state to interfere. (But it is the job of the state to ensure that these activities do not interfere with anyone else).

However with regard to children I take the opposite (and a very prescriptive) view. If I was in charge I would make sure that children ate healthily, took exercise and learned morally improving things whether they liked it or not. If as adults they choose to become obese couch potatoes, that would be up to them.

I am conservative to the extent that I value tradition as an important element in the quality of life (I like judges in wigs and policemen in pointy hats and men in tights and all that stuff). I don't understand New Labour's dislike of history and tradition. You don't know what you've got 'till its gone.
The idea that tradition is an impediment to progress is just ridiculous, it complements it.

I am basically a free-marketeer as I recognise that the free market is unbeatable as a wealth-creator, even though I dislike the lack of correlation - no, the negative correlation - between moral value and economic value (eg useless people like footballers getting paid a hundred times as much as useful people like firemen).

I am socialist to the extent that I believe that provided you are prepared to make a contribution, the state should guarentee you enough to live on. I am however strongly against the current welfare system that encourages dependency and rewards dysfunctional behaviour.

I don't really understand nationalism (I find nationalists - especially Irish nationalists - worrying. There seems to be something wrong with them). I want the UK to be independent of the EU not because I see the continental Europeans as foreigners, but because I want the state that I happen to have been born in to be well governed, and that is incompatible with EU membership. British politicians are quite capable of wasting our money and providing bad government without any help from Brussels.

I suppose that I am a naive utopian because I believe that the problems that British politicians regard as insoluable - crime, congestion, NHS waiting lists -can be solved, some quite easily. Maybe it is harder than it looks. Or maybe British politicians are just hopeless incompetents, motivated purely by personal ambition.

Populist Lee

I suppose I'm a *libertarian* as well to the extent that I am happy for libertarians to smack each others' heads about with wooden planks; but would not expect the NHS to pick up the bill.

Populist Lee

Incidentally.
Has "This-England" had his Ban lifted?

g hall

[quote=Unionist;352086]

Thatcher,
Breaking up state monopolies and selling council houses were measures that gave more freedom to individuals as consumers, employees, home owners and investors. /QUOTE]

And now look at the consequences

What are my politics- very small government with a safety net, individuals to have responsibilities to secure their rights so I guess
Responsible Libertarian Anarchist

__________________
"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."

Kevin Adamson

mkpdavies.....To mention Thatcher alongside Hitler not only shows your complete ignorance of history but also what a complete big mouth prick you are ..........and your a moderator,....well moderate this. V