If the UK divides what will happen to UKIP

Unionist · 08-12-2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

Unionist
Thanks for the info, i was not aware of the issue being discussed on another thread, do you know if it the case with UKIP or the ED's to offer a referendum option on UK independence from the EU and/or English independence from the UK? This would give some clarity.

As I understand it, the official position of the EDP is not to have a referendum on English independence - thanks to cassie for drawing our attention to that matter. That has only recently been clarified and seems to have been a bone of contention.

As for UK independence from the EU, that is clearly the position of UKIP and appears to be the position of the EDP. I do not know of proposals for a referendum in either case but if anyone else does please correct me.

Given the EDP's rejection of English independence, I cannot see much difference between their policy and UKIP's on devolution and an English Parliament. The EDP's official policy seems closer to UKIP than many of their activists would suggest, so whether it is merely a stepping stone to something else or that is genuinely the policy is open to question in my view.

(Note: I preferred UKIP's previous policy on devolution but that's another issue. I am only mentioning these points for clarification.)

Unionist · 08-12-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unionist

As for UK independence from the EU, that is clearly the position of UKIP and appears to be the position of the EDP. I do not know of proposals for a referendum in either case but if anyone else does please correct me.

In fact I think I was wrong about the EDP policy as I have listened too much to what has been said here by ED supporters! This is the policy:

Quote:

The EDP will seek referendum authorisation to decide this country’s future relationship with the E.U.

That leaves UKIP favouring, in effect, an English Parliament and withdrawal from the EU, and the EDP favouring an English Parliament and a referendum on withdrawal from the EU.

Bryan Parry · 09-12-2006, 08:00 PM

What will happen? UKIP will carry on, perhaps "split" into distinct ScoIP, WalI{, NIreIP, and EngIp parts. What should happen is it be merged with the English Democrats. Why? Because if we get to such a dire state that the UK is rent into bits, I dout we will ever be able to undo it, realistically. And, so far as I can tell, the only overriding difference twixt UKIP and EngDem is that EngDem believe in a separate English parliament (and even breakign the UK), whilst UKIP is opposed to that. Otherwise, the parties are very similar.

Unionist · 09-12-2006, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Parry

Otherwise, the parties are very similar.

I beg to differ, and numerous threads on this forum have shown why.

rjt · 12-12-2006, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

You may have to excuse rjt,he may be exhausted from fighting off the French in Kent as they have claimed it as the Arc Manche Region.

They reckon he's a little English b******t terrier when he gets going too.

Actually I am fighting for people in England to have the same rights as those in Scotland, Wales and possibly Northern Ireland very soon.

Of course that may be a little too big an issue for UKIP to cope with but dont worry we will sort it out for you and you can thank us later.

mkpdavies · 12-12-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Actually I am fighting for people in England to have the same rights as those in Scotland, Wales and possibly Northern Ireland very soon.

What you mean the same rights that the EU allows all the old nations, that used to run themselves and used to have anyway.

Thanks for making it more clear.

rjt · 12-12-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Quote:

Actually I am fighting for people in England to have the same rights as those in Scotland, Wales and possibly Northern Ireland very soon.

What you mean the same rights that the EU allow all the old nation, that used to run themselves used to have.

Thanks for making it more clear.

What I mean is that people will have the right to vote on things that actually effect there day to day lives in the same way as the rest of the uK does. Are you saying this is unfair.

mkpdavies · 12-12-2006, 02:08 PM

I don't know any part of the UK that has those magical rights. Do provide me with a link to such a wonderous place.

rjt · 13-12-2006, 07:23 AM

Certainly,

Scotland is able to decide issues on health e.g free care for the elderly, education, tution fees so is Wales

When it comes to England these things where forced through by Scotish Labour MPS whose contituents where unaffected by the change, the bill would not have passed if the governement had not done this.

Of course we can debate whether these policys are good or bad but why are you so against the people of ENgland deciding these things for themselves, is it because you dont beleive in democracy?

mkpdavies · 13-12-2006, 07:28 AM

That's not what you said.

I fully agree the whole balance has been screwed up of late, but only because of politicians carving it up that way. People don't actually have any more say in Scotland, they have been bribed with a few tidbits now, so that they agree to a complete split later.

Plans working a treat so far, but at the end of the day, they will be fully controlled by the EU and so will England.

Stop focusing on the symptoms and start looking at the cause.

View Poll Results: What will happen to UKIP in the event of the UK breaking up?
Be consigned to the history books?	6	14.63%
Change to ENGIP/SCOTIP, CYMIP	14	34.15%
Disband becuse of redundant ideology	1	2.44%
Cry over their track record of success in Scotland and Wales	3	7.32%
Take a hint and go away	2	4.88%
Other (please specify)	15	36.59%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

12-12-2006, 02:08 PM	#38 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	I don't know any part of the UK that has those magical rights. Do provide me with a link to such a wonderous place. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

13-12-2006, 07:28 AM	#40 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	That's not what you said. I fully agree the whole balance has been screwed up of late, but only because of politicians carving it up that way. People don't actually have any more say in Scotland, they have been bribed with a few tidbits now, so that they agree to a complete split later. Plans working a treat so far, but at the end of the day, they will be fully controlled by the EU and so will England. Stop focusing on the symptoms and start looking at the cause. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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09-12-2006, 08:00 PM	#33 (permalink)
Bryan Parry Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Middlesex, England Posts: 394	What will happen? UKIP will carry on, perhaps "split" into distinct ScoIP, WalI{, NIreIP, and EngIp parts. What should happen is it be merged with the English Democrats. Why? Because if we get to such a dire state that the UK is rent into bits, I dout we will ever be able to undo it, realistically. And, so far as I can tell, the only overriding difference twixt UKIP and EngDem is that EngDem believe in a separate English parliament (and even breakign the UK), whilst UKIP is opposed to that. Otherwise, the parties are very similar.

13-12-2006, 07:23 AM	#39 (permalink)
rjt Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Aldershot Posts: 5,292	Certainly, Scotland is able to decide issues on health e.g free care for the elderly, education, tution fees so is Wales When it comes to England these things where forced through by Scotish Labour MPS whose contituents where unaffected by the change, the bill would not have passed if the governement had not done this. Of course we can debate whether these policys are good or bad but why are you so against the people of ENgland deciding these things for themselves, is it because you dont beleive in democracy?