mkpdavies

Sorry Cassie, but if you are an English Democrat, then you one that wants something totaly different to what the other English Democrats have said they want, will happen and that is the UK to no longer exist and for England to remain on it's own.

If you still want the Union (or at least until the UK has all the power back from Brussels), then I have no truck with you.

My only question for you, is why you support a party that is fighting to have another puppet government builiding? Unless you believe that demanding an English parliament will see the EDP sweep to power within the next century, which would be barking IMHO.

The rest of you fellow comrades delight at saying the Union is over and that Unionist parties have lost already. How do you square that circle if you don't believe it is the end?

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cassie

I have told you about what actually is the official EDP policy, as distinct from what others may claim it to be or what they may wish. (You might also take into account the temptation to provoke 'unionist' UKIP.) The more EDP members who support the current policy, the less likely it will change.

It is clear to me that, currently, some 20% more voters support an English Parliament than want independence. I believe that if the EDP becomes seen as being an independence party (akin to the SNP), it will not maximise its support.

I am also sceptical that the Scots themselves will actually vote for independence when the crunch comes. Alex Salmond and the SNP have enjoyed much of the publicity over recent months, but we are beginning to see the fight back. New Labour will be joined in promoting the Union by the Tories, the net result will be some impairment of the support the SNP currently appears to enjoy. The question is how much? It need not be very much to scupper Salmond's schemes.

Whilst I thoroughly disapprove of how Scots in government have treated England unfairly, and although I am conscious of a widespread anti-Englishness amongst Scots, I do not hold that nation in contempt.

My vision is of an English Parliament and for Britain to leave the EU. The conditions for creating the former (ie a wholesale change in the individuals sitting in the Commons), will make the latter possible. I believe that our political situation is sufficiently fluid to make such a 'revolution' possible. The traditional party ties have been greatly weakened and there is huge disengagement with the current agendas of the Big Three.

In such a situation, I also envisage a re-negotiation of the terms of the Union, and that some kind of constitutional convention involving representatives of the English, Scots and Welsh (and possibly Northern Irish) will be necessary by common consent.

The UKIP has much to commend it - its anti-EU stance is entirely desirable to me - but, without wishing to appear to bash it for the sake of it, I felt unable to join it because it has lost much credibility (vital for a party to retain), and because it has not really supported my idea of an English Parliament and Executive.

cassie

Unionist

Strange, it says that the policy of the EDP is neither a Federal UK nor English independence. Someone should tell our friend English Democrat who seems to have advocated both on this forum at various times. I hope he doesn't have any official role in the party as I would not want him to get into any difficulty with his comrades. :roll:

cassie

I suspect he has been told, but it seems to knock the wind out of your argument about the EDP's official policy. Of course you are free to continue your Wilsonian line of "I don't believe it!" if your true motivation is to disparage the EDP for the sake of it.

It has to be admitted that there are those English Democrats who favour independence and who may press (very, very unwisely in my opinion) for the EDP to be committed a referendum on that question, but there are many more who much prefer the current policy.

All parties are coalitions of differing interests but, if I have my way, the EDP will continue to be predominantly as it is: pressing for an English Parliament within the UK. All the objective evidence is that it has much greater appeal and, ultimately, is it not democratic that the majority view should prevail?

Unionist

It doesn't knock the wind out of my argument at all because I oppose them all equally. I happen to think that the Scottish Parliament provides a vehicle for Scottish independence (which will be more so if we have, for example, a Conservative government at Westminster) and an English Parliament would provide a vehicle for the break-up of the UK.

It does mean three things, however:

(1) The idea touted here by senior EDP figures that an English Parliament would mean England being outside the EU - since there would no longer be a United Kingdom - was always false but now it is seen to be a completely empty notion.

(2) The idea put forward by English Democrat that the future divide in politics will be between Nationalists and Unionists is a little wayward, given that the EDP is now claiming a unionist stance.

(3) The criticism levelled by the EDP at UKIP's stance on an English Parliament is incomprehensible, since UKIP is apparently proposing much the same as the EDP.

But you are right on one thing: "I don't believe it!"

cassie

It's a bit rich of someone pleading incomprehension to take your stance.

Good job I wasn't addressing my remarks to you then!

Unionist

cassie, I know you are only trying hard to clarify the EDP policy and it must be difficult when various EDP spokesmen fail to follow the line. Here's a letter I noticed earlier in The Guardian:

Sounds like the Chairman is not quite up to speed!

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/st...961284,00.html

cassie

Now that's a fair cop Guv! ops:

mkpdavies

Seriously, you need to look deeply into what the leadership of the EDP truly believe. What they say here, is very much at odds with official documentation they put out.

They also treat attacks on the EDP as attacks on England itself. This is an old EU trick, such as saying if you hate the EU you are a Europhobe.

Be careful you are not conned, as their true colours ofter show through. I'd hate to think true patriots, who sure want England to have fair and equal treatment (we all want that), could get conned into joing a cause that would destroy Britain and England with it, for who knows what real purpose.

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