Tony Bennett

Wikipedia states that UKIP has 'around 30 local Councillors'.

Does it?

Most political parties count the number of *District* and *County* Councillors they have.

For example, when the Green Party boasts of 92 Councillors, and the BNP 52, these are those elected at *District* or *County* level, not just town or parish Councillors, which UKIP - misleadingly I fear - includes.

UKIP, to disguise its low numbers of District Councillors, seems to include around 12 town and parish Councillors in its total - from an analysis I have conducted (see below).

If any of the information below is wrong, fine, let's see a correction.

But I make it *10* Councillors, not 'around 30':

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How many UKIP Councillors are there?

On this UKIP Forum (now 'British Independence and Democracy Forum), 27 UKIP Councillors are listed.

UKIP’s Wikipedia entry gives the number as ‘around 30’.

With other parties, they are able to give precise figures – BNP 52, Green Party 92.

The other parties, and the media, usually only refer to the numbers of Councillors they have at District/Borough/County Council level.

The following Councillors are either currently declared as UKIP Councillors at District/Borough level, or stood as UKIP in the last election:

North Devon

Michael Pagram

West Devon

David Weeks

Torridge

Andrew Eastham

Oswestry Borough

Ron Jones

South Gloucestershire

Chris Lees

Kennet

Alan Wood

Dudley Metropolitan

Malcolm Davis

Newcastle-under-Lyme

Eileen Braithwaite

Hartlepool

Steven Allison

Slough

Geoff Howard

This is only 10.

The following Councillors are claimed by UKIP as District or Borough Councillors, but information from the Internet and elsewhere does not support it, as follows:

North Devon: John Moore – states he is member of ‘North Devon Independent Group’, not UKIP

North Devon: Ray Lucas, claimed as UKIP, but Council website says ‘Conservative’

Staffordshire Moorlands: Steven Povey, claimed as UKIP but stood as ‘Ratepayers’ and listed as such on Council website

Gary Kirkham, may have joined UKIP at some point, but listed on Council website as Independent and stood as Independent

Chelmsford Borough – John Trustrum – listed as Independent and stood as Independent, not UKIP


The following are Councillors claimed by UKIP as UKIP Councillors serving on parish or town councils, and would not normally be counted by the media as ‘local Councillors’:

Tiverton Town - Christopher Caffin and Ken Gilderthorp

Market Drayton Town - 5 including Roger Smith

Wisbech Town - two UKIP Councillors claimed

Uppingham Town - Peter Baker

Cowes Town I.O.W. - Rose Lyndon-Bell, Paul Birch

Horley Parish (Surrey) - Denese Brooke-Harle

That’s a total of another 12 at parish/town council level.

If I'm wrong about any of these 22 named Councillors, or missed any out, I invite correction on this thread

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Hartlepool

I'm not aware of anyone who could truly say how many UKIP or any other Party has.

This doesn't mean I disbelieve your numbers for all these Parties,it is just the case that I am unaware of where to look or find genuine and accurate statistics because the numbers are changing almost by the day,just look at the bye-elections that take place..

Interesting though.

Tom Wilde

There is no official list of UKIP local councillors. There once was a UKIP press release claiming about 30, but without specifying whether they were district, parish or whatever. I think I put the figure of 30 on Wikipedia myself, though maybe it wasn't me (I can't be bothered to check back).

There is an UNOFFICIAL list, started by me, on this very forum. Is that the one to which Keith refers?

http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4642

The info comes from trawling around the internet plus a few old UKIP press releases plus nuggets from contributors to this forum. So it can't be in aany way seen as authoritative. I wouldn't claim it was comprehensive, either - only that it is better than no list at all. In each case that somebody was listed as a UKIP district councillor it states when they were elected or when they defected from another party. Have you consulted that list? Is that what you are referring to when you say "UKIP claims..." etc?

Tony Bennett

In response to Tom Wilde, below is a verbatim BBCi News report from its website on 26 March 2006.

The list of 'local Councillors' you compiled was no doubt quite accurate at the time, but my key point is that UKIP has misled its members and indeed the media by claiming, as it did, 'between 30 and 50 District and Borough Councillors'. Curiously, there appears to be no mention of UKIP's Councillors on its website.

The claim that UKIP didn't really know how many District/Borough Councillors it had (see BBC report) is of course ludicrous. Any small party knows precisely how many local Councillors it has. UKIP did not give the true figure becasue it was embarrassingly low.

Hopefully - unless my information can be superseded by anyone - UKIP will use the true figure of 10 Councillors in future:

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UKIP launches local poll campaign


[Mr Whittaker says UKIP stand for civil pride]

The UK Independence Party says it is now taking local council elections seriously as it tries to show it is no longer just a single issue group.
Officials say they expect to field at least 300 candidates in the polls.

MEP John Whittaker said he would be delighted if UKIP helped Labour win seats off the Tories to show David Cameron he was taking the wrong tack.

About 4,360 council seats are up for grabs in England in May's elections, including all of London councils.

['Broader message']

UKIP's local election coordinator Jonathan Arnott said 200 council candidates were already fighting campaigns and another 100 were "paper candidates".

He hoped further recruits would take the total number of candidates up to 500.

[UKIP POLICIES - Cut council tax by half - Let local people call binding local referendums on major issues - Give councils control of business rates and let them receive stamp duty]

[Guide to 2006 elections]

The drive is part of UKIP's efforts to show voters their message goes beyond their core call for the UK to leave the European Union.

Mr Arnott said: "It has taken us a long time to get used to the idea that there is a lot more that the UK Independence Party must be talking about.

"We are at a stage now where we recognise the importance of local government."

The party would be targeting 20 council wards in this year's polls and hoped to win seats, he said. But it was really building towards the elections in 2007 and 2008.

[Unambitious?]

UKIP officials estimate they have between 30 and 50 district and borough councillors.

They say they cannot give an exact figure because the issue is in the hands of local UKIP branches rather than the party centrally. [So how come the Greens and the BNP can give an accurate figure for their District/Borough Councillors? - K.H.]

[Some of current councillors defected to the party rather than being elected in its colours].

Party chairman David Campbell Bannerman denied the election campaign was unambitious and UKIP would be pursuing an "enormous agenda" of reigniting local democracy.

Mr Whittaker, an MEP in north-west England, said Warrington was being targeted by the party and he would be happy to see UKIP help Labour oust the Tories from council control.

"The Conservatives need to learn that they need to move in a direction the British people want and if they are pushed out by us because they refuse to do that then we will be delighted," he said.

['Half [sic] council tax bills']

The Tories had moved away from Middle England and deserted core Conservative voters, he argued.

"UKIP stands for the restoration of civil pride, helping people to feel they are part of the local community," said Mr Whittaker.

The party is calling for councils to be given back control of business rates and also receive stamp duty on homes sold in their areas.
They also say they would cut council tax by half and let local people call a binding local referendum on any major issue.

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BASILDON BOY

The Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and Labour know exactly how many councillors they have. Each party has their own Councillors Association (normal membership fee £25) Every single councillor has to join this association. The parties keep accurate weekly lists of the number of councillors they have. All parties produce their own weekly 'pending' list of bye-elections.

It is bonkers to claim councillors as our own when they campaign and stand as independents.

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Mike Nattrass MEP is HOT HOT HOT!!!

Hartlepool

BASILDON BOY,why do you quote my post and then tell us the Lib/Lab/Con do this and that with their Councillors?

With regard to claiming Councillors as our own,I did no such thing.

Please read what I posted because your response to it is confusing to say the least.

Anthony Butcher

One of the first proposals I put to the NEC was a councillors association/group. Needless to say it was ignored and never even made it on to the agenda.

Tom Wilde

Ludicrous it may be, but nonetheless it is true. Last year I exchanged emails with various UKIP officials in an attempt to clarify the situation and they were vary candid about the difficulties involved in compiling a full list. Therefore I tried to do an amateur job myself, and found myself constantly running up against the same difficulties. Therefore I believe them. There is no official list. If you find that ludicrous, I agree with you. If you don't believe them I can't help you - but I do believe them.

Of course, if UKIP were to set up a local councillors association, then we could get a precise answer to a slightly different question, namely "How many members does the UKIP Local Councillors Association have?" But so far there is no such association. I hope there will be in future. I don't suppose the Tories could tell you exactly how many local councillors there are in the UK who consider themselves to be Conservatives - but they could tell you in a flash how many members the Tory local government association has.

I think the true figure is higher than that, though I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if it was as high as 30. You seem to be relying solely on party attributions on local council websites (which even an amateur like me can see are often riddled with errors and out-of-date) and not taking into account sources such as press releases and local newspaper reports. If I had time I'd take up your challenge coucillor by councillor - but I don't, and anyway, my anorak is at the dry cleaners.

BASILDON BOY

To be a Liberal Democrat Councillor you have to be a members of the Association of Liberal Democrat Councillors - if your not a member the whip is withdrawn and you are no longer a Liberal Democrat Councillor - the same for the Tories and the same for Labour.

Nationally the three main parties constituency structures are such that exact numbers of sitting councillors are kept and constantly updated.

This is why come election time the three main parties can provide acurate lists of their councillors, candidates and council seats to be fought.

Remember earlier in the year when our candidates and where they would be fighting was some sort of 'big' secret!

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Mike Nattrass MEP is HOT HOT HOT!!!

tamashi

The only way for UKIP to know how many Councillors it has is by the Councillors themselves letting UKIP know when they are elected. The Local Government Association recognises only four types of Councillor, Labour, Lib-Dem, Conservative and Independent/Minor Party.

Unfortunately it dosen't differentiate between Independent and Minor Parties it just lumps them together. The same goes for the Greens, SNP, Plaid, etc they are all just in the same pot as the Independents. So it's down to party discipline and I suppose Regional Organiser's knowing who is a Councillor on their patch.

The membership fee for the Local Government Association is by the way paid by the Councilor's local authority and not by the Councillor personally.