Better Off Out Candidates

ryansoton · 18-09-2006, 11:18 PM

Following Nigels pledge not to stand against candidates signed up to the Better Off Out campaign is this something the forum agrees with?

I feel we should give seats where a candidate has signed the Better Off Out campaign less time and focus.

Although UKIP needs to become a fully fledged political party our main aim is to get the UK out of the EU.

exo-politics · 18-09-2006, 11:32 PM

No. For me UKIP is more than just a vehicle for removing the UK from the European Union, it is also a vehicle for democracy, justice and transparency. I refuse to support a Labour, Lib Dem or Conservative government unless they turn their parties around completely and present something fresh and new to the electorate (with, of course, an absence of support for the European Union). They cannot be trusted.

In any case, I will hold a complacent attitude towards this policy on the grounds that anybody who signs up to the campaign is included, Labour, Lib Dem or Conservative, not just the latter.

Alex McKee · 19-09-2006, 12:09 AM

UKIP is purely an anti-EU party under Farage. Therefore I have voted on the yes option, it should stand aside for any candidate who is genuinely anti-EU.

If UKIP were to develop a full base of policies then I would think otherwise.

Anthony Butcher · 19-09-2006, 12:40 AM

Nigel's policy is a 2 year backwards step, IMO. The party utterly rejected his motion at the 2004 conference.

His position is consistent though - Nigel has always pressed UKIP as an EU pressure group rather than a full party. However, this is what the members voted for, so it is now UKIP policy.

mkpdavies · 19-09-2006, 10:01 AM

As getting out of the EU is a core objective for UKIP, it has to be smart, seeing as it isn't in a state where it can fight every seat going yet.

For this reason, each seat should be analysed on it's own merit.

The BOO candidate may want UKIP to stand, as the sitation may mean UKIP do more good than bad for the BOO.

The BOO candiate may be a total nutter and against everything else UKIP stand for (eg BNP fascist/neo-Nazi).

UKIP may have a VERY good chance (in the future here) and the sneaky dirty Troika could sign the BOO to intercept a chance for UKIP winning that seat.

So it's fine to suggest UKIP supports the BOO initiative, but no promised should be made openly that it wouldn't stand aginst such candidates. That decision should be made behind closed doors with all the details taken into consideration (IMHO).

However, Nigel has stated his case openly. UKIP will not stand against BOO candidates at the GE as the core value of getting out of the EU, is more important than UKIPs progress. That's a temporal anomoly for those that think UKIP has to make progress before we can ever get out, but fits a model where UKIP push other parties into "doing the right thing".

Personally I don't believe any of the old parties will ever "do the right thing", especially when they know UKIP will always be seen as a pressure group and that they can fire the BOO cannons at them if need be now too. It's Nigels method though and supported by the membership who have given him the mandate to do things his way.

So if you don't like it tough, either back him, sit back and observe or go and do your own thing.

kernow · 20-09-2006, 09:30 AM

What is there to stop any party politician who has signed up to Boo, turning around after the election and saying, sorry I was wrong to have signed, sorry I didn't realise the implications of signing! :shock:

mkpdavies · 20-09-2006, 09:40 AM

Nothing, but fear of losing credibility. Not sure that means much to most of them now.

I think taking the GW Bush line of black and white politics is wrong. UKIP should support BOO in principle, but the fact is, no other party has PROMISED to stand candidates down for BOO, so UKIP shouldn't have either. Whether BOO seats are actually targeted, with the resource UKIP has at the time, is another matter, that should be private to UKIPs top tier.

Independent UKIP · 21-09-2006, 11:33 PM

At present only 37% say no which is lower than I would have expected. The advisers to Nigel who are also members/readers here should take heart at that result. This forum perhaps isn't quite as anti-Farage as sometimes implied. I voted no on this poll but will certainly continue to support the leadership of Nigel Farage for some time to come.

B.A.Ware · 21-09-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

continue to support the leadership of Nigel Farage for some time to come.

theres none so blind that cannot see

B.A.Ware · 21-09-2006, 11:45 PM

If Ukip was a serious political party they would stand down for no party Its a bit like the like Tories not fighting seats if they believed in a Labour policy.

But if you are Tory i suppose you would sign up to the BOO campaign if you only had a majority of a few hundreds.
I wonder how many Tories would sign up if they had majorities of thousands

View Poll Results: Should UKIP stand aside for BOO candidates
Yes	19	43.18%
No	17	38.64%
Undecided	6	13.64%
Only Tory BOO	2	4.55%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

18-09-2006, 11:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
ryansoton Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Southampton Posts: 772 Party: Other	Better Off Out Candidates Following Nigels pledge not to stand against candidates signed up to the Better Off Out campaign is this something the forum agrees with? I feel we should give seats where a candidate has signed the Better Off Out campaign less time and focus. Although UKIP needs to become a fully fledged political party our main aim is to get the UK out of the EU.

19-09-2006, 10:01 AM	#5 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	As getting out of the EU is a core objective for UKIP, it has to be smart, seeing as it isn't in a state where it can fight every seat going yet. For this reason, each seat should be analysed on it's own merit. The BOO candidate may want UKIP to stand, as the sitation may mean UKIP do more good than bad for the BOO. The BOO candiate may be a total nutter and against everything else UKIP stand for (eg BNP fascist/neo-Nazi). UKIP may have a VERY good chance (in the future here) and the sneaky dirty Troika could sign the BOO to intercept a chance for UKIP winning that seat. So it's fine to suggest UKIP supports the BOO initiative, but no promised should be made openly that it wouldn't stand aginst such candidates. That decision should be made behind closed doors with all the details taken into consideration (IMHO). However, Nigel has stated his case openly. UKIP will not stand against BOO candidates at the GE as the core value of getting out of the EU, is more important than UKIPs progress. That's a temporal anomoly for those that think UKIP has to make progress before we can ever get out, but fits a model where UKIP push other parties into "doing the right thing". Personally I don't believe any of the old parties will ever "do the right thing", especially when they know UKIP will always be seen as a pressure group and that they can fire the BOO cannons at them if need be now too. It's Nigels method though and supported by the membership who have given him the mandate to do things his way. So if you don't like it tough, either back him, sit back and observe or go and do your own thing. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

20-09-2006, 09:40 AM	#7 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Nothing, but fear of losing credibility. Not sure that means much to most of them now. I think taking the GW Bush line of black and white politics is wrong. UKIP should support BOO in principle, but the fact is, no other party has PROMISED to stand candidates down for BOO, so UKIP shouldn't have either. Whether BOO seats are actually targeted, with the resource UKIP has at the time, is another matter, that should be private to UKIPs top tier. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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18-09-2006, 11:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
exo-politics Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 54	No. For me UKIP is more than just a vehicle for removing the UK from the European Union, it is also a vehicle for democracy, justice and transparency. I refuse to support a Labour, Lib Dem or Conservative government unless they turn their parties around completely and present something fresh and new to the electorate (with, of course, an absence of support for the European Union). They cannot be trusted. In any case, I will hold a complacent attitude towards this policy on the grounds that anybody who signs up to the campaign is included, Labour, Lib Dem or Conservative, not just the latter.

19-09-2006, 12:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	UKIP is purely an anti-EU party under Farage. Therefore I have voted on the yes option, it should stand aside for any candidate who is genuinely anti-EU. If UKIP were to develop a full base of policies then I would think otherwise.

19-09-2006, 12:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 9,824 Party: None	Nigel's policy is a 2 year backwards step, IMO. The party utterly rejected his motion at the 2004 conference. His position is consistent though - Nigel has always pressed UKIP as an EU pressure group rather than a full party. However, this is what the members voted for, so it is now UKIP policy.

20-09-2006, 09:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
kernow Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,024	What is there to stop any party politician who has signed up to Boo, turning around after the election and saying, sorry I was wrong to have signed, sorry I didn't realise the implications of signing! :shock:

21-09-2006, 11:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
Independent UKIP Uber Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 2,315	At present only 37% say no which is lower than I would have expected. The advisers to Nigel who are also members/readers here should take heart at that result. This forum perhaps isn't quite as anti-Farage as sometimes implied. I voted no on this poll but will certainly continue to support the leadership of Nigel Farage for some time to come.

21-09-2006, 11:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
B.A.Ware Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 4,336 Party: UKIP	If Ukip was a serious political party they would stand down for no party Its a bit like the like Tories not fighting seats if they believed in a Labour policy. But if you are Tory i suppose you would sign up to the BOO campaign if you only had a majority of a few hundreds. I wonder how many Tories would sign up if they had majorities of thousands