Investigating the 'death metal' murders

mkpdavies · 25-11-2005, 01:58 AM

Put it to a jury if a King feels threatened by it and complains.

Lafayette · 25-11-2005, 05:00 AM

Quote:

One the one hand we have to ensure that those who are actually inciting a crime are caught, but on the other we have to make sure that folks have as free a speech as possible.

That's kind of how the first amendment works. You can say what you want, but there are limits.

Quote:

The U.S. Supreme Court reversed Brandenburg's conviction, holding that government cannot constitutionally punish abstract advocacy of force or law violation.

Someone can write a song called "Kill the Christians", but to give a speech about how on such and such a day people must meet outside a specific church and gun down the Christians isn't exactly abstract and it isn't protected speech.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

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Did the book Catcher in the Rye actually murder John Lennon or was it Mark Chapman?

I agree with your point. The book and the Deicide song are just what Glen Benton calls them, entertainment. The quality of the entertainment is questionable, but it is just entertainment. That people sometimes take entertainment so seriously shows how they had problems to begin with, just like Mark Chapman or Charles Manson quoting Helter Skelter and Piggies.

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Yep. Except they're American, so they can plead The First.

If they were sued in Italy, wouldn't European law apply? The US constitution doesn't apply outside of the US. I don't know how international law works, so I have no clue how this would play out, if the band could refuse to accept a trial in Italy or if their songs would qualify as protected speech since they were recorded in the US and were not in violation of laws here. Now I know why lawyers make so much money

Nic · 25-11-2005, 01:21 PM

Isn't it a bit of a leap of faith to assume that people will listen to a song and be influenced to behave in a certain way because of something in the lyrics? After all, Frank Zappa released a song called Montana which mentions dental floss extensively. Now I didn't notice millions of people promptly rushing out to improve their oral hygene as a result.

Captain Apathy · 25-11-2005, 01:56 PM

i wouldnt be so sure i found my self for weeks going "ooo ahh just a little bit" some times i did it a little bit more !

John Carter · 25-11-2005, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic

Isn't it a bit of a leap of faith to assume that people will listen to a song and be influenced to behave in a certain way because of something in the lyrics? After all, Frank Zappa released a song called Montana which mentions dental floss extensively. Now I didn't notice millions of people promptly rushing out to improve their oral hygene as a result.

That's because there's only three people who actually listen to Zappa.

C_steam · 25-11-2005, 06:16 PM

I disagree, the power of songs to influence is massive. For example, in my youth I listened to 'Yes' a lot and particularly their song 'Don't kill the Whale'.

As a result I have never killed, or even had the inclination to kill, a whale.

John Carter · 25-11-2005, 06:58 PM

I disagree. For example, in my youth I listened to "Black Sabbath" a lot and particularly their song "Turn Up The Night".

I have never, to my knowledge, turned up the night (and if anyone says I have I'll deny it flat out, as it's obvious they're telling porkies in a feeble attempt to tarnish my reputation).

(sorry, couldn't resist.

)

Tom Collier · 27-11-2005, 01:37 PM

[quote]Someone can write a song called "Kill the Christians", but to give a speech about how on such and such a day people must meet outside a specific church and gun down the Christians isn't exactly abstract and it isn't protected speech.

Quote:

And that is precisely the difference between making a speech/entertainment/general expression and CONSPIRACY to commit crime. I don`t understand why lots of people seem to have such problems with this area of law. A lot of music ain`t nice or pretty but it is just music. Anyone who thinks the singer is instructing them is deluded.

Tom Collier · 27-11-2005, 01:38 PM

I meant to quote you Layafette but have quoted meself!

ops: Erm, just swap. Must be the music in this internet lab!

25-11-2005, 01:58 AM	#11 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,112 Party: Libertarian Party	Put it to a jury if a King feels threatened by it and complains. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

25-11-2005, 01:21 PM	#13 (permalink)
Nic Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 164	Isn't it a bit of a leap of faith to assume that people will listen to a song and be influenced to behave in a certain way because of something in the lyrics? After all, Frank Zappa released a song called Montana which mentions dental floss extensively. Now I didn't notice millions of people promptly rushing out to improve their oral hygene as a result. __________________ Don\'t forget to register to vote - Frank Zappa

25-11-2005, 01:56 PM	#14 (permalink)
Captain Apathy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: North Somerset Posts: 520	i wouldnt be so sure i found my self for weeks going "ooo ahh just a little bit" some times i did it a little bit more ! __________________ www.insanefaith.com

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25-11-2005, 06:16 PM	#16 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,797	I disagree, the power of songs to influence is massive. For example, in my youth I listened to 'Yes' a lot and particularly their song 'Don't kill the Whale'. As a result I have never killed, or even had the inclination to kill, a whale.

25-11-2005, 06:58 PM	#17 (permalink)
John Carter Uber Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: On Sabbatical Posts: 5,110	I disagree. For example, in my youth I listened to "Black Sabbath" a lot and particularly their song "Turn Up The Night". I have never, to my knowledge, turned up the night (and if anyone says I have I'll deny it flat out, as it's obvious they're telling porkies in a feeble attempt to tarnish my reputation). (sorry, couldn't resist. )

27-11-2005, 01:38 PM	#19 (permalink)
Tom Collier Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 359	I meant to quote you Layafette but have quoted meself! ops: Erm, just swap. Must be the music in this internet lab!