FLB

If as Westminster and the Duchy claim that for national and local purposes Cornwall is a Ceremonial and Administrative county of England and that the Duchy of Cornwall is a separate issue then:

1 Why do the duchy Charters that are still law today talk about the whole of Cornwall being augmented INTO phpbb_a Duchy?

2 Why was the county of Cornwall successfully described as a Duchy in the Cornish Foreshore Case of 1856?

On behalf of the Duchy in its successful action against the Crown, which resulted in the Cornwall Submarine Mines Act of 1858, Sir George Harrison (Attorney General for Cornwall) makes this submission.

1. That Cornwall, like Wales, was at the time of the Conquest, and was subsequently treated in many respects as distinct from England.

2. That it was held by the Earls of Cornwall with the rights and prerogative of a County Palatine, as far as regarded the Seignory or territorial dominion.

3. That the Dukes of Cornwall have from the creation of the Duchy enjoyed the rights and prerogatives of a County Palatine, as far as regarded seignory or territorial dominion, and that to a great extent by Earls.

4. That when the Earldom was augmented INTO phpbb_a Duchy, the circumstances attending to it's creation, as well as the language of the Duchy Charter, not only support and confirm natural presumption, that the new and higher title was to be accompanied with at least as great dignity, power, and prerogative as the Earls enjoyed, but also afforded evidence that the Duchy was to be invested with still more extensive rights and privileges.

5. The Duchy Charters have always been construed and treated, not merely by the Courts of Judicature, but also by the Legislature of the Country, as having vested in the Dukes of Cornwall the whole territorial interest and dominion of the Crown in and over the entire County of Cornwall.

3 Why did the Duchy of Cornwall Management Act confirm that the Duke possesses seignory and territorial rights befitting a king in 1863 if the Duchy is just a landed estate?

4 Why did the Kilbrandon Report INTO phpbb_the British constitution in 1969-71 recommend that Cornwall (the territory of) should be referred to as a Duchy in light of its constitutional position?

5 Why does the Duke of Cornwall have rights of governance and honours over the whole territory of Cornwall but not Duchy lands outside Cornwall? For instance the right of wreck on all Cornish shores, the right of Bona Vicantia / treasure trove for the county of Cornwall, the right to Swans and Sturgeon caught in Cornwall, the duty to appoint the Sheriff of Cornwall and preside over the Stannary Parliaments.

6 Why does the Duchy have its own exchequer and other arms of governance and indeed why is the duchy described in law as a body of governance if it is just a landed estate?

7 Why did this definition of county in the Complete Oxford English Dictionary (2nd Ed 1989 p. 1044.) describe Cornwall as a Duchy?

Whence county was gradually adopted in English ( scarcely before the 15th century ) as an alternative name for the shire, and in due course applied to similar divisions made in Wales and in Ireland, as well as the shires of Scotland, and also extended to those separate parts of the realm which never were shires, as The Duchy of Cornwall, Orkney and Shetland. Part definition of the term County.

8 Why did the 1998 Tamar Bridge act confirm the power of the Duke and border of Cornwall (the Duchy) if the Duchy of Cornwall is just a landed estate?

It seems constitutional law is flexable for the benefit of the rich and powerful.

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FLB

No smart answers then? Maybe we should be seen as a country after all.

mkpdavies

I wish I could comment, but I have no idea about the Cornwall situation.

Personally I think making Cornwall a little country of it's own is odd, but I certainly would like to see a lot more powers pushed down to a local level.

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Labour, Lib Dems

FLB

To recap i contacted the Duchy and the Department of Constitutional Affairs to ask them about the constitutional status of Cornwall and its relationship with the Duchy of Cornwall, with reference to a list of historical and legal facts which can be found on this thread or on this website: http://www.kernowtgg.co.uk/

The Duchy wrote back saying that the Duchy and the County of Cornwall are two different things, the Duchy being a private property company. They however at no time tried to address the facts provided. I wrote back thanking them for their responses but asking that they address the points raised, i still await their response.

The DCA wrote back saying that they treat Cornwall as a ceremonial and administrative county of England for the purposes of their office but that the points i raised where outside their remit to address. they forwarded me to the office of the deputy priminister local government division.
At one point they also suggested i take the government to court if i wanted to change the legal status of Cornwall, something i never even hinted at doing, i just want to know the true status of Cornwall.

ODPM said they treat Cornwall as a ceremonial and administrative county of England for the purposes of their office but the points i raised were outside the remit of their office, they referred me to the DCA.

Do you see where this is going? So that's it, this is the reality of the UK government when questions are too tricky to answer in a reasonable way they simple choose not to answer them. There is only transparency and openness when it suits them.

This is an important lesson for us all to learn not just people in the Cornish movement but all UK citizens!

I really don't know where to go from here accept demanding a different department to communicate with or forwarding all the correspondence to NGO's responsible for monitoring governmental transparency; bodies in Europe spring to mind.

latest letter from me in response to the farce described above:


Policy Advisor
20th of November 2005

Dear..................

Thank you for your letter dated the 11th of November 2005, your ref:...............

I would like to start by apologising to you, I believe in my last letter I made a complaint against you in person. I would like for it to go on record that I retract this complaint without reservation, I understand that you are acting in the only way your department will allow.

However my formal complaint against the ODPM democracy and local governance division stands and I would like this to go on record as a formal written complaint.

The reasons are as follows:

Neither your department, the Duchy of Cornwall or the DCA have been able to provide a description of the constitutional status of Cornwall in the United Kingdom that takes INTO phpbb_account the historical / legal facts I have provided.

Both your department and the DCA have responded that for the purposes of your respective functions you treat Cornwall as a ceremonial and administrative county of England. However both of your departments have failed to responded to or even investigate the historical / legal facts that severely question the bases for this assumption.

When faced with these historical and legal facts the DCA referred me to you, it seems you are now referring me back to the DCA. When faced with the information that I have provided both your departments have claimed that I have raised questions that are outside the remit of your respective offices, if that is the case why have you referred me back to the DCA and why did the DCA refer me to you in the first place?

Does anybody know who is responsible for answering this question in your department or is it that the government just does not want to answer such questions; because quite frankly that’s they way it appears?

So if neither your department, the DCA nor the Duchy can help me obtain a reasonable answer, who can? Which part of the United Kingdom government can provide an answer to one of its citizens that does address all the facts concerning the constitutional status of Cornwall?

Your department and the DCA have both denied responsibility for the question I have raised, you have both said that it lies outside your respective remits, but at no time have you provided me with the name and address of the governmental department that can answer my question, the department whose remit does cover my question.

I find it totally unacceptable that the ODPM and the DCA have failed to provide such a contact address and request that you do so in all haste.

Yours sincerely

F le Breton

CC to the DCA their ref:.....................

All correspondence to date have also been forwarded to the following: Council of Europe Secretariat - Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities, Federal Union of European Nationalities; EU Culture Commissioner; EU Human Rights Committee; EU Citizens Freedom, Rights and Justice Committee