The Holocaust

B.A.Ware · 16-03-2005, 01:00 AM

Is it me or am I constantly hearing about the Holocaust, I am writing this with a total understanding of what happened to the Jewish people. I am just concerned that no one else matters, how many Russians died under Stalin how many people have died under any cruel dictatorship there are no museums or charity’s to promote their cause. And after all of this promotion of it should never happen again, what happened in Rwanda. I don’t know about a national Holocaust day we should have a National Genocide day that encompasses all of the people that have suffered under any cruel dictatorships.

mkpdavies · 16-03-2005, 01:46 AM

Agreed. I can only guess that the Jewish have a much better organised way of bringing their issues to the fore.

Not right, not fair, but what is?

Sarumano · 16-03-2005, 02:43 AM

The Israelis got there first after WW2, when they started to realise
a) how many Jews had been lost as refugee records gradually got sorted
b) that the rest of the world were going to 'forget' the stats by calling those killed Russians, Hungarians, Czechs, &c, &c.

I believe that they deliberately kicked up an international stink over what they call Shoa, precisely so that no-one else would bury it. The rest of the world then followed with Holocaust (Why use a perfectly good Israeli word when there's a perfectly good Latin one?), but we seem to have bent over so much not to be anti-semitic that it now becomes doublethink to notice that other Holocausts have taken place, before and since.

The trouble is, to me, National Genocide Day sounds more like an invitation...

PS It's STALIN you're thinking of. Bloke who starved 20 million Russians before the Great Patriotic War, and killed about 6 million during.

Hartlepool · 16-03-2005, 08:42 AM

Yes,your right about the doublethink,we can also mention the Killing Fields and Viet Nam and those who were butchered by the Commies.What interests me regarding Israel is this...Where would we be with regard to Terrorist threats if the 1948 Exodus had not taken place?I think that is when the real Mouslim/Jew/Christian problems started.If,as an exercise the 2million Jews were dispersed throughout the world what would the likely results be with regards to Peace in the Middle East(and elsewere)?Think about it, no Israel in that location.

John Carter · 16-03-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

Where would we be with regard to Terrorist threats if the 1948 Exodus had not taken place?I think that is when the real Mouslim/Jew/Christian problems started.

I believe that the real mohhamedan/Jewish/Christian problems started about five minutes after the Jews and Christians told mohhamed to take a hike when he approached them and wanted to incorporate his ideas INTO phpbb_their religions. If we take a look at the koran we can observe that over time he becomes more and more aggressive towards the Jews/Christians as they continue to tell him to "go away you weirdo". Thus he ends up writing things like "far be it from God to have a Son", which strangely enough isn't really the best way of making friends with Christians.

Hartlepool · 16-03-2005, 10:54 AM

John I agree,but I really do believe it got out of control starting in 1948 with the Exodus.

social observer · 16-03-2005, 12:18 PM

You are probably right, because that was when religion started to get tangles up with politics and land grabbing.

I'm no expert, but weren't the various religions living together more or less okay before the British (I think it was us) started drawing lines on maps rather than let the locals sort themselves out.

John Carter · 16-03-2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by social observer

I'm no expert, but weren't the various religions living together more or less okay before the British (I think it was us) started drawing lines on maps rather than let the locals sort themselves out.

Not really - this is what some historians would have us believe but certain religions have always been invasive and forceful in their ways... ...starting with the invasion of Mecca.
Here's a little snippet to illustrate:

Quote:

So what is the truth about the Crusades? Scholars are still working some of that out. But much can already be said with certainty. For starters, the Crusades to the East were in every way defensive wars. They were a direct response to Muslim aggression—an attempt to turn back or defend against Muslim conquests of Christian lands.

Christians in the eleventh century were not paranoid fanatics. Muslims really were gunning for them. While Muslims can be peaceful, Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword. Muslim thought divides the world INTO phpbb_two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War. Christianity—and for that matter any other non-Muslim religion—has no abode. Christians and Jews can be tolerated within a Muslim state under Muslim rule. But, in traditional Islam, Christian and Jewish states must be destroyed and their lands conquered. When Mohammed was waging war against Mecca in the seventh century, Christianity was the dominant religion of power and wealth. As the faith of the Roman Empire, it spanned the entire Mediterranean, including the Middle East, where it was born. The Christian world, therefore, was a prime target for the earliest caliphs, and it would remain so for Muslim leaders for the next thousand years.

With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed’s death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt—once the most heavily Christian areas in the world—quickly succumbed. By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

That is what gave birth to the Crusades. They were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense.

16-03-2005, 01:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
B.A.Ware Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 4,620 Party: UKIP	The Holocaust Is it me or am I constantly hearing about the Holocaust, I am writing this with a total understanding of what happened to the Jewish people. I am just concerned that no one else matters, how many Russians died under Stalin how many people have died under any cruel dictatorship there are no museums or charity’s to promote their cause. And after all of this promotion of it should never happen again, what happened in Rwanda. I don’t know about a national Holocaust day we should have a National Genocide day that encompasses all of the people that have suffered under any cruel dictatorships.

16-03-2005, 01:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,083 Party: Libertarian Party	Agreed. I can only guess that the Jewish have a much better organised way of bringing their issues to the fore. Not right, not fair, but what is? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

16-03-2005, 12:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
social observer Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambs/Norfolk Border Posts: 290	You are probably right, because that was when religion started to get tangles up with politics and land grabbing. I'm no expert, but weren't the various religions living together more or less okay before the British (I think it was us) started drawing lines on maps rather than let the locals sort themselves out. __________________ If you don\'t like what I think, attack the opinion with Logic and reason, don\'t attack the opinion holder!

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16-03-2005, 02:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sarumano Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Salisbury Posts: 309	The Israelis got there first after WW2, when they started to realise a) how many Jews had been lost as refugee records gradually got sorted b) that the rest of the world were going to 'forget' the stats by calling those killed Russians, Hungarians, Czechs, &c, &c. I believe that they deliberately kicked up an international stink over what they call Shoa, precisely so that no-one else would bury it. The rest of the world then followed with Holocaust (Why use a perfectly good Israeli word when there's a perfectly good Latin one?), but we seem to have bent over so much not to be anti-semitic that it now becomes doublethink to notice that other Holocausts have taken place, before and since. The trouble is, to me, National Genocide Day sounds more like an invitation... PS It's STALIN you're thinking of. Bloke who starved 20 million Russians before the Great Patriotic War, and killed about 6 million during.

16-03-2005, 08:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,814 Party: Popular Democrats	Yes,your right about the doublethink,we can also mention the Killing Fields and Viet Nam and those who were butchered by the Commies.What interests me regarding Israel is this...Where would we be with regard to Terrorist threats if the 1948 Exodus had not taken place?I think that is when the real Mouslim/Jew/Christian problems started.If,as an exercise the 2million Jews were dispersed throughout the world what would the likely results be with regards to Peace in the Middle East(and elsewere)?Think about it, no Israel in that location.

16-03-2005, 10:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,814 Party: Popular Democrats	John I agree,but I really do believe it got out of control starting in 1948 with the Exodus.