Are we really serious

C_steam · 11-03-2005, 12:47 PM

Try 'CE' marking.

the idea has some good points - particularly for machinery safety - but not all of the compliance points are valid. Worse, CE marking is too widely applied to all sorts of niff naffy things which a country should be able to manage well on their own - i.e "Appliances burning gaseous fuels" and "Recreational craft"

C_steam · 11-03-2005, 12:51 PM

Sorry! one more thing. The individual directives for each of the product types to which CE marking needs to apply contains the following words (example from the toys directive, 88/378/EEC):-

Quote:

Member States shall not impede the placing on the market on their territory of toys which satisfy the provisions of this Directive.

So while many people may see CE marking as a good thing re safety and conformity - it also removes an individual countries ability to ban the sale of any CE marked product.

B.A.Ware · 11-03-2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.A.Ware

This site proclaims to be an anti European site.

Anti-EU, please, not "anti-european".

I did correct myself in my second post.

ops:

Sheila · 11-03-2005, 03:00 PM

Be careful with the electrical wiring example.

It is complicated and I haven't really got to grips with all of it (I do have a copy of Part P of the Building Regs but have to admit that I haven't read all of it, or understood much of it!!) but I understand that not much in Part P comes from anything European and what there is comes from a non-EU body.

I am not entirely sure of the facts - but you need to be if you are going to use this.

Glad you liked EUR-LEX - it's a great resource.

C_steam · 11-03-2005, 03:03 PM

Sheila - we've touched on this before. Part P is not from the EU - the little bit you mention comes from Cenelec but bear in mind Cenelec get funded (all? or some?) from the EU.

Anyway, part p would not have happened if not for Prescott meddling - its probably because he may have got some kind of minor shock while working as a cabin steward on some ancient rust bucket bum boat (

)

B.A.Ware · 11-03-2005, 03:15 PM

Correct me if I’m wrong .I am on about the colour coding of the wires which I thought was brought about by the EU as they changed them years ago from red and black to brown and blue, theses colour changes are now being transferred to house wiring. Are you confusing it with recent changes about DIY electrics? I’m sure c_steam is correct about Cenelec I thought they were commissioned by the EU.

Sheila · 11-03-2005, 03:42 PM

The colour coding is CENELEC, which is not an EU institution but an organisation consisting of all the standards institutions in the EU and other European countries. There is some connection with the EU - explanations on their website if you need the details.

What concerns me is if you talk about the rules about having qualified electricians do what previously could have been done by an amateur, which have been widely reported as being due to an EU directive, which as far as I can see it is not.

C-steam, I knew we had discussed this before but I couldn't find the previous postings!

C_steam · 11-03-2005, 08:12 PM

NB - Sheila meant to say "which is not an EU institution but an organisation consisting of all the standards institutions in the EU relating to electrical applications" I know she knows.

Hartlepool · 11-03-2005, 09:41 PM

I must own up to the fact that I have obviously underestimated John Prescott,I didnt realise he was so well qualified to be able to work on bum boats.Well done that little man!

Sarumano · 12-03-2005, 12:13 AM

be careful quoting "eu" regs and directives.

I am minded of a "Countryside" prog a year or two back, where the farmers were getting all mythered abbout something the "eu" brought in.

They went all through the prog, and the presenter concluded that, well, yes, the eu had a lot to answer for.
"this" he says, slapping down a half-inch thick book "is the regulation. On the other hand, this..." (THUD! he produces an 18 inch pile of papers) "... is what OUR government did with it!"

An awful lot of what we call eu regulation is goldplating.

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11-03-2005, 12:47 PM	#11 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,797	Try 'CE' marking. the idea has some good points - particularly for machinery safety - but not all of the compliance points are valid. Worse, CE marking is too widely applied to all sorts of niff naffy things which a country should be able to manage well on their own - i.e "Appliances burning gaseous fuels" and "Recreational craft"

11-03-2005, 03:00 PM	#14 (permalink)
Sheila Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 580	Be careful with the electrical wiring example. It is complicated and I haven't really got to grips with all of it (I do have a copy of Part P of the Building Regs but have to admit that I haven't read all of it, or understood much of it!!) but I understand that not much in Part P comes from anything European and what there is comes from a non-EU body. I am not entirely sure of the facts - but you need to be if you are going to use this. Glad you liked EUR-LEX - it's a great resource.

11-03-2005, 03:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,797	Sheila - we've touched on this before. Part P is not from the EU - the little bit you mention comes from Cenelec but bear in mind Cenelec get funded (all? or some?) from the EU. Anyway, part p would not have happened if not for Prescott meddling - its probably because he may have got some kind of minor shock while working as a cabin steward on some ancient rust bucket bum boat ( )

11-03-2005, 03:15 PM	#16 (permalink)
B.A.Ware Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 4,620 Party: UKIP	Correct me if I’m wrong .I am on about the colour coding of the wires which I thought was brought about by the EU as they changed them years ago from red and black to brown and blue, theses colour changes are now being transferred to house wiring. Are you confusing it with recent changes about DIY electrics? I’m sure c_steam is correct about Cenelec I thought they were commissioned by the EU.

11-03-2005, 03:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
Sheila Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 580	The colour coding is CENELEC, which is not an EU institution but an organisation consisting of all the standards institutions in the EU and other European countries. There is some connection with the EU - explanations on their website if you need the details. What concerns me is if you talk about the rules about having qualified electricians do what previously could have been done by an amateur, which have been widely reported as being due to an EU directive, which as far as I can see it is not. C-steam, I knew we had discussed this before but I couldn't find the previous postings!

11-03-2005, 08:12 PM	#18 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,797	NB - Sheila meant to say "which is not an EU institution but an organisation consisting of all the standards institutions in the EU relating to electrical applications" I know she knows.

11-03-2005, 09:41 PM	#19 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,814 Party: Popular Democrats	I must own up to the fact that I have obviously underestimated John Prescott,I didnt realise he was so well qualified to be able to work on bum boats.Well done that little man!

12-03-2005, 12:13 AM	#20 (permalink)
Sarumano Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Salisbury Posts: 309	be careful quoting "eu" regs and directives. I am minded of a "Countryside" prog a year or two back, where the farmers were getting all mythered abbout something the "eu" brought in. They went all through the prog, and the presenter concluded that, well, yes, the eu had a lot to answer for. "this" he says, slapping down a half-inch thick book "is the regulation. On the other hand, this..." (THUD! he produces an 18 inch pile of papers) "... is what OUR government did with it!" An awful lot of what we call eu regulation is goldplating.