Article: STV Is A Poor Choice For Reform

[rjt]

I fought hard against AV, I thought it was a system which would change politics for the worse, with a 2 party state and party machine dominating politics plus the probability of more broken promises. Like most people I opposed a system which would reward the LibDems.

However, like most people, I also think there is a vast democratic deficit between what people want (Less immigration, Our own Laws etc..) and the political agenda of the party elites.

Italy or Greece fractious pure PR scenario with multiple governments in a year is a horror story to most people. A commitee deciding whats the best flavour icecream - under PR they will take forever and likely result in a squabbling mess of opinion with no resolution. You need a majority authority/leadership right or wrong to make decisions. However - you still want them to take into account some of the stronger opinions being voiced.

Because of the obvious democratic deficit under our current system, I think most people would favour a TOP-UP PR system of additional MPs on a party basis - *even if it meant coalitions* - to keep the self serving political elite in check.

I am glad you fought hard against AV so did i and am delighted the people regected it. I also agree with what you say about the democratic defecit and the systems in Italy and Greece although they are matters for those countries.

Where I have concerns is the idea of this top up system, I favour giving power back to the people and the people elected on such a basis could well simply be chosen by the partys and give their first loyalty to the partys they represent when the first people they should be accountable is the electorate.

[trampjuice]

Like the frog in boiling water approach the EU use to progressively grab more and more power, the AV system could easily have been won by introducing it for local elections and getting people used to it first. Luckly, the LibDems being a party of 'people who know best' with an opposing policy set, showed all the arrogance of the political elite, thought just getting the referendum agreement would be enough.

A Topup PR system cannot be tried out on a smaller less important scale first unfortunately. Or could it be adapted to local councils?

[Anthony Butcher]

Like the frog in boiling water approach the EU use to progressively grab more and more power, the AV system could easily have been won by introducing it for local elections and getting people used to it first. Luckly, the LibDems being a party of 'people who know best' with an opposing policy set, showed all the arrogance of the political elite, thought just getting the referendum agreement would be enough.

A Topup PR system cannot be tried out on a smaller less important scale first unfortunately. Or could it be adapted to local councils?

I agree with all of that.

Local elections would be an excellent place for STV (which is multi-member constituency AV). Take a look at our local election results:
http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/NR/rdon...n11Summary.pdf

Conservatives - 44% of the vote, 69% of the councillors.
Labour - 20% of the vote, 8% of the councillors.

At the moment we use FPTP for seats with multiple councillors which is insane. It just leads to blocks of two or three councillors all from the same party, and they can all be elected on less than 50% of the vote.

[Anthony Butcher]

Like the frog in boiling water approach the EU use to progressively grab more and more power, the AV system could easily have been won by introducing it for local elections and getting people used to it first. Luckly, the LibDems being a party of 'people who know best' with an opposing policy set, showed all the arrogance of the political elite, thought just getting the referendum agreement would be enough.

A Topup PR system cannot be tried out on a smaller less important scale first unfortunately. Or could it be adapted to local councils?

I agree with all of that.

Local elections would be an excellent place for STV (which is multi-member constituency AV). Take a look at our local election results:
http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/NR/rdon...n11Summary.pdf

Conservatives - 44% of the vote, 69% of the councillors.
Labour - 20% of the vote, 8% of the councillors.

At the moment we use FPTP for seats with multiple councillors which is insane. It just leads to blocks of two or three councillors all from the same party, and they can all be elected on less than 50% of the vote.

[Citizen67]

I also think STV is perfect for local elections, proportional enough to be fair and workable, unproprtional enough to keep loonies, idiots, chancers and opportunistic extremist out. it needs to slightly unproportional because such low numbers of voters ar involved.

[EMF]

Why do people keep on saying that STV is not good because its vote counting-method is complicated? As long as you have the trust that the thing is done honestly all you need to do is to put the candidates on offer in an order of your choice.

If you are a passenger on an aeroplane you don't need to understand how the plane works as long as you trust the pilot knows his job.