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Thread: UKIP: Independent councillors join UKIP

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    Default UKIP: Independent councillors join UKIP

    From the official website:

    Three Councillors representing Ramsey & Parkeston in Essex have announced their intention to join UKIP.

    Tendring District Councillor John Brown and Parish Councillors Martyn and Lesley Donn are all independents who have decided that they will throw in their lot with the anti-EU political party, which is making serious inroads into the support of the three traditional political parties.

    Cllr Brown, 58, who is a retired crane driver, said: “The Tories have been trying to recruit me for years but I couldn’t do it because I believed that their top down control freakish party structure would have heavily compromised my ability to represent the people who elected me.

    "I am by nature an independent who believes in putting the needs of the people ahead of party politics. I have been a strong supporter of many of UKIP’s policies and have been voting for them at General Elections.

    "I believe that they are my natural home because they allow free thinking in their Party and their whole cause is about independence. I look forward to working with them locally and nationally.”

    Cllr Donn 52, who is a textile retailer with premises in Dovercourt High Street said: “My wife, Lesley and I, are very pleased to be joining UKIP.

    "They have the sort of policies that the country badly needs. It is a great shame to see local public services being hit hard by cutbacks while Britain’s contributions to the EU are not only ring-fenced by the Government but massively increased.

    "We should be putting local people’s needs first, not Brussels!”

    UKIP’s MEP for the East of England, Stuart Agnew said: “It is very good news that they are joining us, particularly as there are many more councillors doing the same thing.

    "I think people are beginning to recognise just how badly the three traditional parties have been letting the voters down, not only at national level but at local level as well.

    "We are a Party which strongly supports local government in every sense. Micro-management of local government both by the EU and central government doesn’t work. Local councils need their independence too.”



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    A trend we will continue to see.
    UKIP, Britain's fourth largest political party.

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    Trusted Member Baron von Lotsov's Avatar
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    "They allow free thinking in their Party"


    Never underestimate this; it is one of the magic ingredients of the UKIP that sets it apart from the other three. Lady Thatcher was the last to employ it, and all those who worked with her said anyone around the cabinet table could offer any opinion they liked as long as they could back it up. This is what the Right stands for anyway, so really all of that false accusation about saying Nazis were Far Right is absolute nonesense, they were national socialists. This is the bottom line with the Left; the Left are control freaks and demand everyone behave in the permitted way of the party. The Left are ideologically driven, whereas the true Right believe that everyone is an individual and so the best way is through the use of many different brains, all looking at the issues in their own unique ways in order to arrive at the best way to do something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    "They allow free thinking in their Party"


    Never underestimate this; it is one of the magic ingredients of the UKIP that sets it apart from the other three. Lady Thatcher was the last to employ it, and all those who worked with her said anyone around the cabinet table could offer any opinion they liked as long as they could back it up. This is what the Right stands for anyway, so really all of that false accusation about saying Nazis were Far Right is absolute nonesense, they were national socialists. This is the bottom line with the Left; the Left are control freaks and demand everyone behave in the permitted way of the party. The Left are ideologically driven, whereas the true Right believe that everyone is an individual and so the best way is through the use of many different brains, all looking at the issues in their own unique ways in order to arrive at the best way to do something.

    Baron von Lotsov: The dominant SUPPORTERS of the Nazis, once they obtained power, were industrialists and the higher social groups: yours claims are quite absurd. Are you saying that the Duke of Bedford, for example, was a socialist, and a whole plethora of the British aristiocracy, likewise were a 'bunch of commies'? When Churchill ORDERED the Duke of Windsor to return home from France or face court martial, was that because was he had become Left-wing? You are quite out of your depth, and show yourself as a complete ignoramous. Was Lord Nuffield (William Morris) another lefty? What about Chipps Channon? Captain Archibald Ramsay MP. (Unionist) was interned due to his antisemetic and pro-nazi beliefs: was he another of your lefties? In your historical thesis, do you include the Catholic Church which signed a concordat with the German Nazi government once they had obtained power? For good measure this was not ended until 1947, although many Nazis escaped via Spain and other Catholic countries. Are you saying that Cardinal Pacelli , (Pope 1939-1958) (Pope Pius X11) was a leftwinger, and a neutral towards the the fate of Jews? Have you a name that you dare not use out of shame?
    Last edited by Geoffrey Collier; 08-03-2011 at 12:07 AM.

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    Trusted Member Baron von Lotsov's Avatar
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    Industrialists can be both left and right wing. The Soviet Union was an industrial power and we rarely see countries worse than that. Socialists are not all peasants; so don't mix up the two, as many were wealthy aristocracy. Money in itself does not make you either left or right; it is the means by which it is produced that determines it. The right are into free trade and the left are into state control of industry. The system in this country has been three classes, namely the working class, the middle class factory owners and the landed gentry of the upper class. The socialist system is simply a two-class system consisting of elite and proletariat. The difference between that and our system is the elite are now billionaires. The middle is being taken out and as such you are immobile, as there is no way of transitioning between proletariat and elite. The elite are what they are through birthright. It is not a meritocratic system and that is why it always fails in the end.

    Robert Maxwell is a good example of a socialist industrialist. Also Catholics are not necessarily right wing and are sometimes on the left. I mean you would have to go through the different countries and see for yourself. Italy is very Catholic and it is more leftwing than we are. I mean Mussolini managed to do his thing at one stage, but more generally Italy is a higher tax kind of economy. America is your best example of a rightwing country, with low tax, libertarian values and an economically mobile population. If you really wanted to be wealthy in America and were willing to do the work no one would stop you, and your wealth would not be despised as it is in leftwing regimes. Mind you one can understand the hatred of the wealthy in a leftwing regime because they are often connected to the party and fiddling the books.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    Industrialists can be both left and right wing. The Soviet Union was an industrial power and we rarely see countries worse than that. Socialists are not all peasants; so don't mix up the two, as many were wealthy aristocracy. Money in itself does not make you either left or right; it is the means by which it is produced that determines it. The right are into free trade and the left are into state control of industry. The system in this country has been three classes, namely the working class, the middle class factory owners and the landed gentry of the upper class. The socialist system is simply a two-class system consisting of elite and proletariat. The difference between that and our system is the elite are now billionaires. The middle is being taken out and as such you are immobile, as there is no way of transitioning between proletariat and elite. The elite are what they are through birthright. It is not a meritocratic system and that is why it always fails in the end.

    Robert Maxwell is a good example of a socialist industrialist. Also Catholics are not necessarily right wing and are sometimes on the left. I mean you would have to go through the different countries and see for yourself. Italy is very Catholic and it is more leftwing than we are. I mean Mussolini managed to do his thing at one stage, but more generally Italy is a higher tax kind of economy. America is your best example of a rightwing country, with low tax, libertarian values and an economically mobile population. If you really wanted to be wealthy in America and were willing to do the work no one would stop you, and your wealth would not be despised as it is in leftwing regimes. Mind you one can understand the hatred of the wealthy in a leftwing regime because they are often connected to the party and fiddling the books.
    Baron von Lotsov: The dictatorships in central and southern Europe in the 1919-1945 period emananted from a Catholic culture which was common to all of them. To no small extent that had been assisted by the Vatican's opposition to democracy in Italy during late 19th.C. Italy, Portugal, Spain, Austria, and Hungary all produced their own variety of fascism. You claim that those were ideologies of the Left. Judged by culture which created them, supported them, and made them respectable, everyone from the Pope down, according to your analysis, were left-wingers. The 1933 Concordat between the Nazi Party and the Holy See, was a diplomatic triumph for Hitler of the first order. 'Hitler must be a reasonably good chap else the Pope wouldn't have anything to do with him'. It gave Hiter international credibility, and also resitricted scope for it to be challenged by politicians in Catholic countries.
    The reasons for this situation were highly complex, but your claim that the process was Left-wing, and somehow (quite accidentally, no doubt) involved every institution of state is absurd.

    You then make another jump into dubious territory. America isn't a libertarian country; it is quite intolerant of social/political change. The teaching of Darwin's theory, for example, was banned in many states. Eugenic laws existed in many states for the sterilisation of inadequates who were dependent upon state funded institutional care. The latter laws also had a racial dimension to them. Your simplistic world of free-markets scarcely exists. Corrupt political power exists in the USA in abundance. The criticism in Britain is often directed towards particular individuals. Multi-million pound footballers, pop stars, and the like, who are semi-literate, while those in public service; surgeons, scientists, and others are only modestly rewarded. This is not envy but a disappointment with the priorities. Quite a different thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    "They allow free thinking in their Party"


    Never underestimate this; it is one of the magic ingredients of the UKIP that sets it apart from the other three. Lady Thatcher was the last to employ it, and all those who worked with her said anyone around the cabinet table could offer any opinion they liked as long as they could back it up. This is what the Right stands for anyway, so really all of that false accusation about saying Nazis were Far Right is absolute nonesense, they were national socialists. This is the bottom line with the Left; the Left are control freaks and demand everyone behave in the permitted way of the party. The Left are ideologically driven, whereas the true Right believe that everyone is an individual and so the best way is through the use of many different brains, all looking at the issues in their own unique ways in order to arrive at the best way to do something.

    Baron, your simplistic view that everyone who disagrees with you is a communist is really starting to get on my nerves, and when did Thatcher ever allow free thinking in the Tory party?

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