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Thread: Article: Update: How to get out of the EU, control Immigration and get an English Par

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    Trusted Member Millennium3's Avatar
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    Default Article: Update: How to get out of the EU, control Immigration and get an English Par

    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman." Thomas Paine

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    Dear Millenium,

    As you know, I see virtue in the concept of Direct Democracy so I would like to offer a few thoughts and observations.
    I do not know how experienced and, more importantly, how successful you have been in elections.
    'Selling' a concept to the voter in a democracy, be it here or in any other country, is a major undertaking. In the USA at the moment people (and secretive groups) are spending fortunes supporting the Republican & Democrat candidates in the Senate elections. I suspect that the anti-EU groups do not have fortunes to spend, and neither do I.
    Selling the idea of leaving the EU has taken nearly 20 years. Selling the idea of all-Independent candidates would take another 20 years. More in my view as its hardly an earth-shattering concept liable to raise the voter out of his armchair.
    Golfers, cricketers, footballers and snooker players play to their strengths and try to improve their weaknesses. I see no difference in politics.
    The resistance to the EU is growing, the resistance to the political class is growing, the resistance to the austerity measures is growing. Britain has not reached the stage of Greece or Spain or France in the people resisting their government and its EU imposed austerity measures by taking to the streets, but its not far off. A negative part to a campaign is essential, using the public's anger. The positive half of the coin is the remedy - DD.

    I don't believe for one moment that the mass of the British people will become street rebels unless the economy fails badly. In my view one has to offer instead the language of rebellion and 'sell' it to the public. Also, it has to be a combined effort by the anti-EU faction as an act of Solidarity.

    To win a general election means winning over 50% of the seats, bearing in mind every other party is pro-EU. To win the election without an overall majority one probably needs 35% of the seats. At election time the major parties will have already received 'pledges' for their vote from the diehards - the core vote. The floating voters (say 20%) and the people who refuse to vote (say 35%) comprise the target voter. There are possibly 300 safe seats, leaving a large number of the 350 marginal seats to win. The arithmetic says that it is a big ask to do that from scratch in 4 years. Worse still if the Government goes in 2 years.

    Therefore a Direct Democracy party has to create the feeling of a revolution inside, possibly, 2 years. If Labour win or Conservative win, then the DD party has to win far more seats than the LibDems and Others combined for LAB or CON to consider forming a coalition with DD and accepting a compromise deal of legislation on DD before a referendum could be called. It would be an essential part of the campaign to stop the LibDems from winning as many seats as in 2010.

    Its a big ask, and needs a DD party to bring together UKIP and ED, together with non-racist nationalists in other parties.

    Now, this is the part that matters! We all have our theories. The sensible approach is to trial these ideas in a few cities. My friend Eric Edmond and I trialled opposition to the Lisbon Treaty in Gordon Brown's constituency. The evidence proved that it was as strong there as in the rest of the UK, but it didn't stop him retaining his seat!
    It goes to show that the core vote needs a a massive incentive to abandon their party.

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    Trusted Member Millennium3's Avatar
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    I have never been very interested in becoming a politician so my experience in trying to become elected is very limited. However, I have taken an interest in what causes political shifts which, when there are fundamental changes, are because there is a change in the collective will of the people - and the great politicians are those who are 'in tune' with this, they don't persuade the people of their belief - they simply act as a conduit.

    If, as looks very likely, we are heading for a time of high unemployment with reduced benefits the voters will take more interest in politics [interest has been down to about 30% in recent years, whereas it was 70/80/90% following WW2]. The lack of interest was due to Blair's 'things can only get better' theme and Brown stating he had ended boom and bust politics! This lack of political interest was demonstrated by falling t/o at GEs when it was difficult to get 60% to vote compared to an average t/o of 75% until New Labour were elected.

    The people are aware that the nation is in great debt and economies are needed, but little has happened yet which has meant the majority of voters have had to change their lifestyles significantly - if and when this happens, there is likely to be a serious 'mood swing' within the electorate and those politicians which can detect this will be able to make considerable changes quite quickly.

    With trust in politicians down to 26%, high levels of unemployment and a significant lowering of living standards seen to be caused by ineffectual or corrupt career politicians - Direct Democracy is likely to become very appealing - particularly if the Bankers continue to receive high bonuses.
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman." Thomas Paine

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    The reason that single-issue parties canot progress is not only because they are disunited single issue parties, it is because the only available basis for unity is, at present, not taken out into the world and explained.

    The only basis on which unity can be forged is this:

    We English are being race-replaced in England through the efforts of a traitorous political class. We English have an absolute interest in our own survival, which reduces to our children's birthright to their own ancestral homeland. Life itself commands us to act in our own interest.

    Now, this is a nationalist, indeed, an onto-nationalist prescription. It raises foundational issues about the life and death, and rights and interests of peoples. It is anti-Establishmentarian before it is anti-immigration, and it is anti-liberal before it is anti-Establishmentarian. Out of it will come genuinely radical and new thinking, new politics, and not a renewal but a revivification of the English people.

    There is no contrary argument by which the ultimate interest of ethnic survival and of life itself can be overcome. It snatches away from the liberal aegis the philosophical shelter of freedom and justice, and leaves the liberal arguing for death and nothing more.

    What, then, could stand against it? Only the vanity and corruption of petty men, and it is these things which chiefly support the continued existence of single-issue politics, and constrains dissent in this land to the fringe.

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    Trusted Member Millennium3's Avatar
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    Isn't Direct Democracy on an even higher plane? What use an England for the English if they are governed by a dictatorship - albeit alternating?

    Under Direct Democracy, if what you want is wanted by the majority - it can, and with a little determination, will be the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennium3 View Post
    Isn't Direct Democracy on an even higher plane? What use an England for the English if they are governed by a dictatorship - albeit alternating?

    Under Direct Democracy, if what you want is wanted by the majority - it can, and with a little determination, will be the case.
    DD is utilitarianism. The genetic continuity of the English people is foundational. So DD is hardly on a higher plane!

    It is instructive that the great difficulty which nationalist intellectualism has in the postmodern age is simply trying to explain to captives of the liberal zeitgeist - which is everyone, including you - that nationalist values are the ultimate human value and that the nationalist analysis of Neo-Marxism, economism and globalism, and Jewish millenarianism, is profound and correct. The captives think of Hitler, as required, and shy away. Pavlov triumphs again, and so the power to change our present consignment to race-replacement and debt-slavery is never grasped.

    Given this, in what way would DD free Englishmen and women to cognise their deepest interests at last, and vote for them? Not without my aforementioned correction of the public discourse. People need to feel, as they always used to, that they can discriminate for their own real interests, and that it is not immoral for the English to desire to live at peace in this, our own land.

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    Trusted Member Millennium3's Avatar
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    I view DD to be on a higher plane in that democracy, by definition, is the will of the people from its origins in Athens and other BC Greek cities - DD is as close as can be got to this.

    Although I agree that the plight of the English is dire, nevertheless, if there were a referendum and the majority did not want any changes to what exists presently or that there should be no limit to immigration - this would be the will of the people and it would be best accepted - although we know that this is unlikely to be the case.

    It is true that I believe, in practical terms, that DD offers the best prospect of the English getting what they want [whatever that might be] in so far as I believe there is a much better chance of a coalition of a whole variety of parties and pressure groups uniting around DD because it would give each of the participating parties/groups a chance of achieving the changes they want.

    I think that any solely 'English' movement is likely to fail because, as we have seen with the anti EU movement, where the vast majority did not want political union, a single issue has great difficulty in becoming sufficiently important to the majority [usually because the economy is by far and away the most import issue for the majority]. DD could clear this hurdle because it would be the 'collected' majority issues.

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    The all party campaign "better off out" was founded many years ago. It was hoped it would be a platform on which eurosceptics could join in the common goal of withdrawal from the EU. There is a vehicle in place,the willingness of the eurosceptic parties is not

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    Yes, but as we saw prior to the last election, only 1% thought it was the most important issue. The economy was top with 30%+ second to immigration 11%. I think this does indicate that Direct Democracy, the solution to a collection of wide ranging issues, would give the best chance of a head of steam building.

    It is worth keeping in mind that there is probably only two GEs left to achieve withdrawal through conventional politics as the extra conditions of the LT take effect after 5 years and as the older population [those most against our membership] die out. This also impacts on the English question as, as the EU tightens it grip, their demand for English regions will intensify.

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    Millenium

    Democracy is a field treated with nitrates by powerful commercial interests, tilled by the media, and planted and harvested by the politicans. The real will of the people is never part of that harvest. For it to be so some profound changes must take place before the matter of voting ever comes into view.

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