Well this falls way short of the mark.Originally Posted by Independent UKIP
Not wishing to speak on behalf of anyone, but how can someone expressing opinions be lying if they genuinely believe their opinions? I know of several posts - one attributed to me by a looney - that were pulled down at UKIP's request (and to claim they were potentially libellous is specious).
So, still waiting for anyone to post a single lie from either of those sites. Just 1 will do.
Steve
Had the word Richard,just a typo.
They're expressed as facts not opinions.
So many to choose from, but how about his conduct around the assassination of the Swedish politician Miss Anna Lindh - Mr Lance-Watkins stated his approval of this action, re-iterated it in an interview to a journalist who is also a friend and then denied he had said it when his friend printed the story in a Sunday newspaper. IIRC, Mr Lance-Watkins denied saying it but refused to condemn his journalist friend for publishing these quotes as the excuse was an unforeseen editor supposedly edited the article after it was submitted, thus absolving him and his friend. I also recall Mr Lance-Watkins making mention of getting in touch with someone in Sweden to pass on condolences and to offer assistance in the investigation ino the murder. I'm sorry but I do not believe his explanations. And that's just one story.
As Independent UKIP has stated, the accusation that this forum is controlled by UKIP is as ridiculous as it is unfounded, if that were the case, some of this forum's real characters would not be allowed to post as freely. indeed, Mr Lance-Watkins often uploads to his website content from this forum that he agrees with (some of it ridiculously harsh), but again it doesn't tally with the forum being UKIP controlled. Plus I also agree that stating opinions as if fact is a common theme with him.
GLW has indeed said some very unkind things about the owner of this forum and while I disagree with many of the things he has said about Anthony they are clearly his opinion and thus not lies. As for claim that this is UKIP controlled forum. I am certain that GLW is incorrect on this point but I do know that he makes such a claim based on incident that took place before I joined the moderating team.
I was just now reminded that GLW and Junius have both claimed Nikki Sinclaire has published her "fully audited accounts". That is not a claim I recall Ms Sinclaire making herself so I make no criticism of her on the point. That she has published her "fully audited accounts" is a straightforward lie by both GLW and Junius. I recall mentioning at the time the possible reputational damage this could cause RSM Tenon. His recent claims about a large and important readership for his blogs could help them quantify any damage they might think has been caused by his lies about their work for Ms Sinclaire.
This has nothing to do with unkind things being said or disagreements. As Mr Lance-Watkins regards it as a fact that the forum owner is dishonest and corrupt it is noted that you do not say that is a lie, you merely disagree with some unspecified things GLW has said about Anthony. Due to your astonishing failure to even partially absolve the forum owner against the statement that he is dishonest and corrupt I humbly withdraw my own statement that Mr Lance-Watkins has lied on this point. It does, however, remain my opinion that they are lies and despicable lies at that.
I don't recall exactly when you joined the moderating team but it was a few years ago IIRC. GLW has last stated as fact that this is a UKIP controlled forum on 30th July 2012. If, as you say, you're certain this is not a UKIP controlled forum and he is stating as fact that it is then I suggest one of you are lying or you are not aware of the true controlling element present due to being an unwitting dupe. It is my opinion you're not an unwitting dupe or liar and therefore it is GLW who is a liar by stating falsities as fact.
I am actually surprised that we are having this discussion about the fictions of Mr Lance-Watkins and even more so that Mr Morson is seeking examples. I say that because it wasn't so long ago - perhaps when Mr Morson was still a UKIP member - when he himself was on the receiving end of Mr Lance-Watkins' propensity to use personal attacks against his adversaries. In that particular link, Mr Morson says;
.But GLW / Junius is a different kettle of fish. I've taken to renaming them 'bogs', because of what you usually find in (almost all of) them.
I am not sure how you concluded that I failed "to even partially absolve the forum owner against the statement that he is dishonest and corrupt" as all I did was acknowledge GLW's right to hold that opinion. For the avoidance of all doubt I do not believe that Anthony is either dishonest or corrupt.
As I said, I believe that Greg is wrong to claim that this is a UKIP controlled forum. Being wrong does not in itself make you a liar.
In any event I am disinclined to continue this "debate" any further as I have no desire to speak for GLW, or indeed anyone else. I was merely acting on a reasonable request in asking for allegations to be substantiated since GLW's ban means that he cannot make such a request in person. He has now responded to some of your claims on his blog. You may wish to make further comments about his response
As if one needed more proof of Mr Lance-Watkins propensity to lie (or to be generous, stating opinion as if fact), here is a snippet of his response to this very discussion we are having.
I have stated that the squalid little Forum in question is UKIP controlled and that the owner Anthony Butcher is a contemptible and cowardly liar and pawn of UKIP – A statement which I am happy to repeat and can clearly show to be true. (AF - My emphasis)
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