Former Chelsea Manager Takes England squad to Auschwitz

[Vortex]

Uncle Joe was our friend, we were allies in the fight against Nazi tyranny, without him and the Soviets where would the free world be today?

I'm sorry I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that incredulous statement.

[Vortex]

Perhaps you've never heard of Romeo Dallaire, but I assure you that quite some time before the film, Hotel Rwanda virtually every literate Canadian had, for reasons the link will make obvious. Additionally, some Rwandan war criminals sought refuge in this country, to their ultimate regret.



Agreed, but as horrible as the Holodomor and the Rwandan genocides were, Rwanda and the Ukraine comprise entire countries; Auschwitz-Birkenau consists of barely a score square kilometers, to which more than a million innocent individuals were transported from many countries all over Europe for the specific purpose of murdering them. That makes it unique.

It is not unique. The definition of unique is "existing as the only one or as the sole example; single; solitary in type or characteristics: a unique copy of an ancient manuscript". It is clearly not so. There are numerous examples throughout history of similar atrocities against people on account of their ethnicity, religious or political beliefs. Six million Jews were murdered by the Nazis, and six million Ukrainians were murdered by the communists. Both are equally bad, but one has precedence in the remembrance stakes over the other. Why is that and is it right?

[Marilyn]

Eh Oui Tillerman .. I am afraid some on the forum are obsessed with making a league table of genocides. Who is denying Rwanda ? Who is denying the Holodomor ? .. Who is denying ANY genocide save the Holocaust ? ... why, only squareheads, because the Holocaust keeps getting in the way of neo-nazi hopes of a come-back, hence the need to deny it, hence the need of jews to stop them rewriting history as if it never happened.

Who keeps on opening threads about this stuff on the forum ? ... not me, not you... them !

Perhaps you've never heard of Romeo Dallaire, but I assure you that quite some time before the film, Hotel Rwanda virtually every literate Canadian had, for reasons the link will make obvious. Additionally, some Rwandan war criminals sought refuge in this country, to their ultimate regret.



Agreed, but as horrible as the Holodomor and the Rwandan genocides were, Rwanda and the Ukraine comprise entire countries; Auschwitz-Birkenau consists of barely a score square kilometers, to which more than a million innocent individuals were transported from many countries all over Europe for the specific purpose of murdering them. That makes it unique.

[Tillerman]

Did the Soviets round up Ukrainians or Ukrainian Orthodox practitioners in several different countries and deliver them to a specific, central location to be murdered? If not, Auschwitz is indeed unique.

[Papa Luigi]

How many places on earth can you name where so many innocent humans were murdered in such a short time in such a cynical, systematic manner for so trivial a reason as who their forebears were?

Auschwitz-Birkenau consists of barely a score square kilometers, to which more than a million innocent individuals were transported ...

Admittedly, it appears that most of the people who were sent to Auschwitz were sent there just because they were Jews or Gypsies or Russians etc., but there will also have been a significant number of them who were sent there because of crimes or acts of sabotage they had carried out. Lets not get carried away with the notion that they were all saintly individuals, after all, a goodly number of them became kapos and apparently played a major role in herding the others into gas chambers. You can argue that the kapos were just obeying orders and would have been executed if they had not complied, but so were most of the camps SS guards.

[Vortex]

Did the Soviets round up Ukrainians or Ukrainian Orthodox practitioners in several different countries and deliver them to a specific, central location to be murdered? If not, Auschwitz is indeed unique.

Yes the Soviets rounded up their opponents throughout a massive geographical area to transport them to slavery and in most cases death in the Gulags of Siberia between 1921 and 1990. They included those brave Polish and Czech patriots who fought to preserve their people, culture and heritage, who post 1945 were rounded up and murdered. If you are ever in Prague visit the moving memorial to the former pilots of the Czech Squadrons of the RAF in St Vitus Cathedral who when they returned to their own country to hopefully build a new democratic country were rounded up and murdered.

[Papa Luigi]

Did the Soviets round up Ukrainians or Ukrainian Orthodox practitioners in several different countries and deliver them to a specific, central location to be murdered? If not, Auschwitz is indeed unique.

Apparently, according to your mate Sidmouth there were dozens of concentration camps and so the Jews, criminals, terrorists, gypsies and Russians etc., were not all taken to just one central location to be murdered and the Holocaust is not so unique after all.

[Tillerman]

Eh Oui Tillerman .. I am afraid some on the forum are obsessed with making a league table of genocides. Who is denying Rwanda ? Who is denying the Holodomor ? .. Who is denying ANY genocide save the Holocaust ? ... why, only squareheads, because the Holocaust keeps getting in the way of neo-nazi hopes of a come-back, hence the need to deny it, hence the need of jews to stop them rewriting history as if it never happened.

Who keeps on opening threads about this stuff on the forum ? ... not me, not you... them !

I've scarcely even mentioned Jews in this thread. Soviet POWs, Romany people, and ordinary Catholic Poles were murdered at Auschwitz for their ethnicities as well. Their murders are no less tragic or inexcusable.

But I stand by the comment I made to Edwards earlier. The main reason that a football squad's voluntary visit to Auschwitz raises the ire of so many racial nationalists is a result of being reminded, yet again, of an unfulfilled dream of theirs and the impossibility of its being attempted again as a result of xenophobic rhetoric, regardless of how thickly it might be laid on.

[Marilyn]

Ah .. the denialist in action. And I see you have Vortex for back up, or are you really the same.

No other genocide is subjected to systematic Denial that I am aware of .. and the key issue is because it was jews who were then chosen for extinction, and would be again if the antisemites on this forum had another chance. No, I am not jewish despite your dearest wish .. and thanks to this forum, I now know why the Holocaust is singled out for denial.

Admittedly, it appears that most of the people who were sent to Auschwitz were sent there just because they were Jews or Gypsies or Russians etc., but there will also have been a significant number of them who were sent there because of crimes or acts of sabotage they had carried out. Lets not get carried away with the notion that they were all saintly individuals, after all, a goodly number of them became kapos and apparently played a major role in herding the others into gas chambers. You can argue that the kapos were just obeying orders and would have been executed if they had not complied, but so were most of the camps SS guards.

[Robert Edwards]

Agreed, but as horrible as the Holodomor and the Rwandan genocides were, Rwanda and the Ukraine comprise entire countries; Auschwitz-Birkenau consists of barely a score square kilometers, to which more than a million innocent individuals were transported from many countries all over Europe for the specific purpose of murdering them. That makes it unique.

By that same token, all human tragedies involving mass killings are unique. The methods are immaterial.