Yet another U-turn

[angelman]

Not a great surprise this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18245963

Labour's shadow chief secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves, described the policy reversal as "a total and utter shambles".

I really can't disagree with Rachel Reeves. This government is a complete joke and lost pretty much all credibility. Is there any point wasting one's time and listening to them, as the chances are that they will change their mind at the first hint of discontent? Who is bringing out all these policies that get reversed so quickly? Does no one think these proposals through or is it more a question of throw as many ideas out there as possible, and if no one complains/whinges then stick with it?

What a weak pathetic lot we've got in charge of us. It might well be a total and utter shambles, but it's also embarrassing.

[SteveShark]

Not a great surprise this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18245963

It must take a pretty rare gift to be able to offend pasty-eaters and caravan-owners in equal measure - and then to delight both groups.

But it gets better - now some overpaid and underworked civil servant is going to have to define what is a hot pasty and what is a pasty that's just cooling down.

[Road_Hog]

But again, Cameron won't tell us why this has happened, originally. Thatcher put VAT on takeaway hot food (or her Chancellor did) back in the early '80s.

This leaves an anomaly that the EU weren't happy with, so they had to be harmonised. And he hasn't really backtracked, if you buy a hot/heated pasty from now on, you'll pay 20% VAT just like you would on a pasty from a chip shop.

Only if you buy a pasty that has been cooked, but not kept warm, will you evade the VAT. Which is much different to going into a supermarket and buying a pasty. And of course, there's the rub, it wouldn't be harmonised then, because you'd be paying VAT on your pasty at Greggs but not at Tesco. And Greggs would probably take the government to court and then on to the EU and they win.

And it's the EU and harmonisation rearing its ugly head with caravans as well. I can't find a directive (don't have time to search) for the new VAT on statics, but here is the details when they introduced on touring caravans two years ago.

http://www.caravan-news.co.uk/news/wide-caravans

[Road_Hog]

It must take a pretty rare gift to be able to offend pasty-eaters and caravan-owners in equal measure - and then to delight both groups.

But it gets better - now some overpaid and underworked civil servant is going to have to define what is a hot pasty and what is a pasty that's just cooling down.

The pasty that is fresh out the oven and is cooling down will have no VAT. It needs to be a pasty that has been kept hot, to have VAT added.

The caravanners owners won't be happy for very long. Tourers already have the full VAT rate applied, the government must harmonise the tax rate or get taken to the EU court. It will start at 5% and be stepped up over the years.

[angelman]

Roadie, you post highlights that there is another issue here, one which has plagued the Tories for years. Why do they seem incapable of communicating why things are done? The biggest sinlge failing of this was probably the Community Charge, which once the bad press started, became a runaway train and probably finished of Thatcher (although her time was probably up). They seem to leave themselves wide open to attacks, misinterpretation, embellishments, whatever, that make them look like fools who favour only one section of society.

I remember once having a chat with someone about the Tories, and he thought that the best way for them to govern was to keep their mouths shut and not try and change things. This was a fair few years ago now, and I have to agree with him. As soon as the Tories try and change something, they seem to put their foot in it. They need to learn how to communicate better and that way, they might avoid doing all these ridiculous U-turns, which are just a sign of a weak government.

[Road_Hog]

Roadie, you post highlights that there is another issue here, one which has plagued the Tories for years. Why do they seem incapable of communicating why things are done? The biggest sinlge failing of this was probably the Community Charge, which once the bad press started, became a runaway train and probably finished of Thatcher (although her time was probably up). They seem to leave themselves wide open to attacks, misinterpretation, embellishments, whatever, that make them look like fools who favour only one section of society.

They don't want to tell us that 80% of UK legislation comes from the EU. People would be horrified if they realised how much does and how silly some of the legislation is. If people really knew what they had to put up with, they might demand a referendum on the EU.

The other point is that Dave & Gideon are just incompetent and have no experience of the real world. And quite frankly they don't give a hoot about the general public. There was a time when politicians had some life experience, but they're all career politicians these days.

[angelman]

There was a time when politicians had some life experience, but they're all career politicians these days.

Agree. One of the arguments for not changing the Upper House.

[CB100]

I do think they seem to be matching labour for incompetence.

1) Theresa May with staff that can't count to 3 months, and so has the ongoing fiasco with Qatada.

2) Osborne that doesn't do a proper evaluation of the low benefit / high risk aspects of the budget and so loses any upside on the positive aspects.

3) Damian Green that can't ensure we have enough passport staff so creating long airport queues etc etc.

To name but 3.

In the private sector you would be sacked for this lack of grip, but successive goverments seem incapable of managing a brief and yet nothing changes.

The other point is that Dave & Gideon are just incompetent and have no experience of the real world.

[SteveShark]

The other point is that Dave & Gideon are just incompetent and have no experience of the real world. And quite frankly they don't give a hoot about the general public. There was a time when politicians had some life experience, but they're all career politicians these days.

I'd call them more 'hobby politicians'.

They're not in it for the money and they know damn well that if they screw things up (which they have done already and will do in the near future), then they can leave the job and either retire to a life of luxury, or build up vast property portfolios whilst commanding eye-watering fees for lecture tours.

No matter what happens, they're OK and all without actually understanding the people who voted them into office.