Parliament is not sovereign : it never has been.

[Podcast]

Parliament is sovereign. Parliament is sovereign. It can make any law it wishes. We keep hearing this repeated over and over again. What is the matter with these people? Have they not heard of the European Union? The European Commission now make approximately eighty percent of our laws while our elected parliament make the other twenty percent - so what kind of sovereignty is that? The Maastricht Treaty established the principal that EU law is superior to the laws made by the member states. This means that if any discrepancy arises between the two sets of laws then EU law must take precedence. Obviously parliament is not sovereign since Maastricht and before that is was never sovereign. However I will continue this discussion on the General Politics forum in a day or two.

[Geoffrey Collier]

Parliament is sovereign. Parliament is sovereign. It can make any law it wishes. We keep hearing this repeated over and over again. What is the matter with these people? Have they not heard of the European Union? The European Commission now make approximately eighty percent of our laws while our elected parliament make the other twenty percent - so what kind of sovereignty is that? The Maastricht Treaty established the principal that EU law is superior to the laws made by the member states. This means that if any discrepancy arises between the two sets of laws then EU law must take precedence. Obviously parliament is not sovereign since Maastricht and before that is was never sovereign. However I will continue this discussion on the General Politics forum in a day or two.

Podcast: Let us hope that before you return to discuss this matter you are better informed. A sovereign parliament WILLED all those things against which you object. Many others of us similarly objected. However, should a future parliament WILL that all those things must be rescinded, and direct rule returns to Westminster, that will be done. What is your legal or constitutional authority which supports the contrary?

[Richard Allen]

Podcast: Let us hope that before you return to discuss this matter you are better informed. A sovereign parliament WILLED all those things against which you object. Many others of us similarly objected. However, should a future parliament WILL that all those things must be rescinded, and direct rule returns to Westminster, that will be done. What is your legal or constitutional authority which supports the contrary?

Quite so Geoffrey.

Senior Judges have made clear time and time again that EU law only trumps British Law because Parliament has legislated to that effect. A simple one clause bill is all that is required to change this.

[Podcast]

Podcast: Let us hope that before you return to discuss this matter you are better informed. A sovereign parliament WILLED all those things against which you object. Many others of us similarly objected. However, should a future parliament WILL that all those things must be rescinded, and direct rule returns to Westminster, that will be done. What is your legal or constitutional authority which supports the contrary?

Whether parliament willed it or not does not alter the fact that the EU is now the sovereign power. So far I have not objected to anything and nor have I stated that sovereignty could not be returned to the UK.

[Geoffrey Collier]

Whether parliament willed it or not does not alter the fact that the EU is now the sovereign power. So far I have not objected to anything and nor have I stated that sovereignty could not be returned to the UK.

Podcast: That is not a logical argument; it is not a fact that the EU is now the sovereign power. Can we have your evidence please? How could sovereignty be returned constitutionally if, according to your argument, it no longer resides at Westminster?

[Podcast]

Podcast: That is not a logical argument; it is not a fact that the EU is now the sovereign power. Can we have your evidence please? How could sovereignty be returned constitutionally if, according to your argument, it no longer resides at Westminster?

I think I explained this in my first post but I will explain it again. The member states of the EU have agreed, through various treaties, that EU law is superior to the laws made by their own national parliaments. This makes the European Commission the supreme power. Sovereignty could be returned to the UK if our parliament takes us out of the EU, with or without the consent of the other member states.

[Geoffrey Collier]

I think I explained this in my first post but I will explain it again. The member states of the EU have agreed, through various treaties, that EU law is superior to the laws made by their own national parliaments. This makes the European Commission the supreme power. Sovereignty could be returned to the UK if our parliament takes us out of the EU, with or without the consent of the other member states.

Podcost: Sovereignty has not even left the Parliament of the United Kingdom. This has been made clear on numerous occasions, but the judgement of Mr Justice Laws will suffice. (Thoburn v Sunderland City Council). Justice Laws said that Britain's relationship with Europe is founded on British Law alone, and not EU law. The European Communities Act (1972)
was that which was decided by the Westminster Parliament. It is a British Statute; and stands in isolation. What is your legal authority to say that the judgement of Mr Justice Laws (and other judges, incidentally) was wrong in law? You appear not to have the slightest understanding of the true legal position.

[Podcast]

Quite so Geoffrey.

Senior Judges have made clear time and time again that EU law only trumps British Law because Parliament has legislated to that effect. A simple one clause bill is all that is required to change this.

Have you any idea if and when parliament intends to enact such a bill? Until they do it remains the case, does it not, that EU law trumps our law, and this means that the United Kingdom is not a sovereign nation state.


Geoffrey - I will have to come back to this later. I am about to start another thread on the General Politics section.

[Geoffrey Collier]

Have you any idea if and when parliament intends to enact such a bill? Until they do it remains the case, does it not, that EU law trumps our law, and this means that the United Kingdom is not a sovereign nation state.
Geoffrey - I will have to come back to this later. I am about to start another thread on the General Politics section.

Podcast: Your inference is wrong. There is no law imposed upon the United Kingdom by the EU which Paliament has not willed; which Parliament cannot change, and which Parliament cannot change retrospectively should that be required by circumstances. The Doctrine of Sovereignty is unaffected by our membership of the EU.

[Podcast]

Podcast: Your inference is wrong. There is no law imposed upon the United Kingdom by the EU which Parliament has not willed; which Parliament cannot change, and which Parliament cannot change retrospectively should that be required by circumstances. The Doctrine of Sovereignty is unaffected by our membership of the EU.

What a nincompoop you are. You have just admitted that the EU imposes laws on the United Kingdom and parliament goes along with it. Why? Why do we need the EU to tell us what laws to enact. A parliament enacting laws because they have been told to by some unelected foreign bureaucrats is not my idea of a sovereign nation state.


I have started a new thread in the British Government Section.