Are we anti-Europe or anti-EU ?

[longbord]

It's an interesting proposition... even if this particular question has been worked... and re-worked... to death an awesome number of times.

For myself, I have no fear or resentment towards any european country. I cannot think of one that I don't like... and I cannot think of people from the various parts of Europe with which I am acquainted without affection.

It is partly because I so thoroughly enjoy the character and variety of other european countries that I am so vehemently opposed to the EU.

Europe is real. It is a diverse group of countries which have developed through their own internal dynamic... and through interaction with each other... over a very long period of time.

The EU is NOT real. It is the invention of self-serving charlatans who want to control and enslave the free peoples of Europe in the best interests of such august institutions as Tescoes, Panasonic, the HSBC... and so on.

As for "invasion"... why would an Englishperson fear invasion from Europe...???

Our country is already invaded... and few of the invaders came from Europe.

The EU simply completes the pictures so that we can now say... "We are an invaded nation ruled over by a corrupt, foreign authority."

[Krabat]

...

Fear of Europe is in our bones and in our gutts...

I lost some tears now. Some invasions from Asia and you would know what fear is. Pussy.

[wiglaf]

Without a doubt I am anti EU – Not anti Europe.

It is the EU that’s costs us 45 million a day & makes75% of our laws, not Europe per say.

To be against Europe I fell would be negative & show us in a bad light.

We need to highlight the evils of the EU & fight that,not Europe who have in many countries, other Patriots who hate the EU superstate and wish to withdraw themselves and have back their own nations sovereignty.

So Anti EU – Yes

Anti Europe – No

[SDP]

I lost some tears now. Some invasions from Asia and you would know what fear is. Pussy.

Krabat

The point of this thread is to decide the best words to use in leaflets. If you listen to the TV they now talk about Europe, when they mean the EU. William Hague had an election slogan 10 years ago, "In Europe but no governed by Europe". That was ten yeas ago, and no-one tried to correct William Hague's words even way back then.

In the European Union but not governed by the European Union. That would have been more accurate but would have made a poor election slogan.

As for fear, then life under William the Conquerer 1066 would have been frightening. The whole of the English nation was turned into slaves for several hundreds of years. People treated much worse than cattle. English brides raped by Norman noblemen on their wedding night, legally by right of law. There were no police, no law courts and no appeals to anyone about anything. The Norman noblemen could do anything they wanted, and they did exactly whatever they wanted to, totally unrestrained.

Life under the Roman Empire 2000 years ago would not have been much different. The Roman Empire was built on slavery and treated conquered nations very much in the same way. The life of a slave under any system of government is a very frightening life.

Now we have a new threat from Europe, and that is the called European Union.

[SDP]

Without a doubt I am anti EU – Not anti Europe.

It is the EU that’s costs us 45 million a day & makes75% of our laws, not Europe per say.

To be against Europe I fell would be negative & show us in a bad light.

We need to highlight the evils of the EU & fight that,not Europe who have in many countries, other Patriots who hate the EU superstate and wish to withdraw themselves and have back their own nations sovereignty.

So Anti EU – Yes

Anti Europe – No

Wiglaf

You misunderstand me I am not trying to change anyones political views. The point of this thread to decide on the best words to use in our leaflets, to get the best results, and in particular a leaflet aimed at young people.

What about the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR). The British newspapers today are raging against Britain being forced to give the vote to prisoners. But the ECHR is not the same organisation as the EU, so the ECHR would need a separate mentions if we are to be strictly accurate.

Youth against the European Union and the European Court of Human Rights Campaign

How does that sound to you ?

[Alex McKee]

It is a distinction the Eurosceptic movement has generally failed to impress on the general public. I would say the vast majority of Eurosceptics are fond of Europe, its culture and heritage and distinctiveness. We are opposed to the EU. But the point SDP is trying to make, I think, is that the general public do not understand the distinction and believe that Eurosceptics hate Europe.

Of course the conflation of the EU with Europe in the media helps to widen this gap in thinking and it is probably deliberate. My opinion is that if we started to refer to the EU as Europe we would be surrendering the distinction entirely.

[rjt]

Anti Eu not Anti Europe, the latter seems to indicates some petty little Englander Nationalism, these are questions of democracy, economics and soveriegnity and that is I want this country to leave.

[angelman]

I love Europe. I love it's diversity. I love that when you go there, no two countries are the same. I love the food, the smells, the language, the architecture, the different way of life. etc etc

I feel that the EU tries to harmonise things so much that the only way of doing it is homogenising things to the lowest common denominator. I realise that they want all members to be able to move/operate in each and every country, but the member countries are sometimes so different from each other. What do the Portuguese and Finns have in common?

I think it right and proper that we should have trading agreements to facilitate the movements of goods and services with a standardised set of "rules". I am a little more cautious on the freedom of everyone to move where ever they want.

So no, on a personal level I love Europe but do not want to be ruled by a single European government.

[Krabat]

Krabat

The point of this thread is to decide the best words to use in leaflets. If you listen to the TV they now talk about Europe, when they mean the EU. William Hague had an election slogan 10 years ago, "In Europe but no governed by Europe". That was ten yeas ago, and no-one tried to correct William Hague's words even way back then.

In the European Union but not governed by the European Union. That would have been more accurate but would have made a poor election slogan.

As for fear, then life under William the Conquerer 1066 would have been frightening. The whole of the English nation was turned into slaves for several hundreds of years. People treated much worse than cattle. English brides raped by Norman noblemen on their wedding night, legally by right of law. There were no police, no law courts and no appeals to anyone about anything. The Norman noblemen could do anything they wanted, and they did exactly whatever they wanted to, totally unrestrained.

Life under the Roman Empire 2000 years ago would not have been much different. The Roman Empire was built on slavery and treated conquered nations very much in the same way. The life of a slave under any system of government is a very frightening life.

Now we have a new threat from Europe, and that is the called European Union.

You talk about raping 1000 years ago but know best well that nobody will attack England to enslave the english people. You English should better learn that you yourselves are responsible for your decline. Nobody forced you to import millions of strangers from your colonies. You cry about a danger arising from Europe, but your problems are housemade. You won the war but you failed in profiting from the war. Instead you play the multicultural chief-clown of Europe. You should be afraid of all the coming Tottenhams, not of Germany. Stick together with us, we do not hate you and never did. Be reasonable.

[internetcynic]

You talk about raping 1000 years ago but know best well that nobody will attack England to enslave the english people. You English should better learn that you yourselves are responsible for your decline. Nobody forced you to import millions of strangers from your colonies.

Think you'll find we are unable to stop 80% of the 5 million foreigners let in due to them and us being in the EU. Under the EU, we have been denied control of our borders. We didnt ask for that, and we have never been allowed to vote on it.

You cry about a danger arising from Europe, but your problems are housemade. You won the war but you failed in profiting from the war. Instead you play the multicultural chief-clown of Europe. You should be afraid of all the coming Tottenhams, not of Germany. Stick together with us, we do not hate you and never did. Be reasonable.

No, all our problems stem from being part of the EU. When we signed up, it was supposed to be a trading arrangement. Nobody mentioned anything about mass immigration, a single currency, tax harmonisation, political union, the Eu army, Eu arrest warrants, 300,000 new regulations, billions of pounds of our money missing from the EU funds unaccounted for, or any of the other sh*t weve been forced to put up with. No one ever asked us if we wanted that, and every single politician since 1974 has ignored and denied us the choice on it. And most of all, no one asked us if we wanted to be 'multicultural', because, if you hadnt already clicked on, we didnt.