Are we anti-Europe or anti-EU ?

[SDP]

Since when has England been the only country in Europe with a history of war and destruction from its neighbours? If anything we've got off lightly off over the centuries.
There isn't one example provided that wasn't a pan-European or global issue and thankfully conflicts of the past.

youngian

Yes you are right youngian. Many countries in Europe have been involved a lot more wars than England. For example there have been some terrible wars in Europe between Protestants and Catholics.

The threat to the existance of England comes today from the European Union.

[Solymir]

youngian

Yes you are right youngian. Many countries in Europe have been involved a lot more wars than England. For example there have been some terrible wars in Europe between Protestants and Catholics.

The threat to the existance of England comes today from the European Union.

You mean the "UK" surely? I can't stand people who use England to represent the UK.

[SDP]

You mean the "UK" surely? I can't stand people who use England to represent the UK.

Solymir

You are correct. We live in a country called UK. Our nationality is British.

But

1/ People from Scotland want to be called Scottish
2/ People from Wales want to be called Welsh
3/ People from Northern Ireland want to be called Northern Irish
4/ People from England want to be called English

Nobody wants to be called British anymore, and nobody wants to call their country UK. Because of our membership of the European Union the words Britain and British have developed many negative connotations.

[Traditionalist]

Traditionalist

Stalin was born in a town called Gori. This is a small town in Georgia formerly part of the USSR. This is along the very edge of Europe and Asia. I believe because it was part of the USSR it is normally considered to be in Europe, although it is right on the very edge of Europe.

South of the Caucasus is not Europe.

[Traditionalist]

Traditionalist

For the purposes of discussion on this thread I have only picked out the wars that involved fighting between England and other countries in Europe. This means that I have not mentioned wars that did not involve England.

The vast majority of wars in Europe did not include England. There were some particularly nasty wars in Europe between Protestants and Catholics, but as England was not actually fighting I have not mentioned them.

The First World War and the Second World War would have still gone ahead even without England. Had England chosen splended isolation in 1914 then the Kaiser would have won and conquered Europe. Or maybe Adolf Hitler would have won the Second World War with terrible consequences for Jews around the World.

Splendid Isolation was always best for us.
No intervention in world war 1 would have meant no second world war as we knew it.

[SDP]

Splendid Isolation was always best for us.
No intervention in world war 1 would have meant no second world war as we knew it.

Traditionalist

Financially you are correct Traditionalist. Before the First World War Britain was the richest country in the world. But fighting two world wars has made us very poor.

Britain built up enormous debts during those two world wars, and we have only recently finished paying them off.

The wars in Europe have given the British a natural fear of interference from mainland Europe. And this partly expalins the fear we have of being dominated by the European Union.

Strange though that fighting two world wars has made Germany and Japan very rich.

[Solymir]

Traditionalist

Financially you are correct Traditionalist. Before the First World War Britain was the richest country in the world. But fighting two world wars has made us very poor.

Britain built up enormous debts during those two world wars, and we have only recently finished paying them off.

The wars in Europe have given the British a natural fear of interference from mainland Europe. And this partly expalins the fear we have of being dominated by the European Union.

Strange though that fighting two world wars has made Germany and Japan very rich.

Way to completely ignore Traditionalist's point and continue repeating yourself.

Germany and Japan were rapidly rebuilt in the USA's image following WW2 so they could be a "bastion of Americanness" against the Soviet Union and China.