Wrong perception of eastern european immigrants in the UK

[internetcynic]

Why do some people make such a big deal about this mixing with the host population? As far as I can see as long as the immigrants adhere to the laws of the land everything is ok. There is no conflict. You can't expect people to become friends with people you have nothing in common with, can you?

Because, you silly sod, national unity is what makes a nation great and successful, the classical example is Japan, japan has a huge commonality and nation identity, and foreigners are second class with no rights or influence. 'Multiculturalism' is simply 'divide and conquer' by another name.

A nation fractured by 'multiculturalism' does not work together, and there is no common national interest. Instead you have all the different divisions working for themselves first. You reduce the nation back to tribalism, in effect, and its tribalism thats kept the African nations backward and poor, that's plainly clear to anyone. Furthermore, multiculturalism results in ethnic ghettos, class divisions, isolationism of groups, and ultimately race hatred and conflict, non of which are desirable in any society.

Only when all members of a nation work together with common interests and values do awe all benefit. World War Two showed us that. The rise of the British Empire showed us that. The fact the industrial Revolution started here was a result of it. Commonality is a vital bedrock of a society, and so the integration of foreigners MUST be compulsory.

[EMF]

I guess it works both ways; as often as the immigrants don't want to assimilate with the main population also the indigenous population often don't want to have anything to do with immigrants. I have a lot of foreign work-mates and I get on with them at work but I really don't want to socialize witht them during my free time.

[BCG Jason]

You have to remember since the 50's we have been losing by my count after reading a book in the reference library about 200,000 Brits every year to date, so we need immigration and it's about getting ones that are going to assimilate. Most Anzacs come here for a few years and meet fellow Anzac partners and go back to the Southern Hemisphere. The cross over comes from sport cricket and rugby that get's the banter going in the office. South Africans are different I think a fair number want to stay here because of fears for their homeland.

Re the East Europeans although Poles are the largest number we have Czechs, Lithuanians, Rumanians, Albanians and Hungarians. Several of the languages cross over too. I only know this from speaking to the working ones and often find they do 2 jobs, like the Anzacs some intermarry with the Brits but not many. Friends in the police do find a lot of crime being done by the East Europeans the question is why the government LibLabCon won't even talk about it.

Going back to my first point some of my friends think we need immigration or otherwise who is going to pay the taxes for our pensions?

I don't think we will ever know the true story until a patriotic / nationalist party obtains power and there is no sign of that currently.

[flamingreen]

You have to remember since the 50's we have been losing by my count after reading a book in the reference library about 200,000 Brits every year to date, so we need immigration and it's about getting ones that are going to assimilate.

We certainly do NOT "need" immigration. Britan is already grossly overpopualted beyond our carrying capacity. If we had stopped all immigratioon at the turn of the millenium, we would now havea gently falling popualtion. Competiton for homes and jobs would be far less severe, crime would be lower, the immigrants we had would be slowly assimilating (theyd have to if they werent allowed to import wives and husbands) and many of the ethnic Brits who are leaving would likely be remaining here because they would be more positve about the future of our country.

[BCG Jason]

FG, we have not had a big war for almost 70 years and many people are living longer, just read today an amazing statistic that 1 in 8 adults works as a carer. I too, think we are overpopluated and the first place to start would be getting rid of the illegals and 'assisting' those foreigners getting benefits on a working visa to go home.

Like I said before, so many Brits have gone to live abroad; Southern Hemisphere, North America or France and Spain. What if we find that if we did get rid of everyone not born in these shores whether we would then need to ask 30% to return to get essential jobs done.

If you know the stats please share?

[flamingreen]

FG, we have not had a big war for almost 70 years and many people are living longer, just read today an amazing statistic that 1 in 8 adults works as a carer. I too, think we are overpopluated and the first place to start would be getting rid of the illegals and 'assisting' those foreigners getting benefits on a working visa to go home.

Like I said before, so many Brits have gone to live abroad; Southern Hemisphere, North America or France and Spain. What if we find that if we did get rid of everyone not born in these shores whether we would then need to ask 30% to return to get essential jobs done.

If you know the stats please share?

Its a silly question because there is no channce of us getting rid of ALL the foriegners here, and as things stand at present we do not "need" any immigrants.

You need to consider from where we ARE, not where we would be in the hypothetical scenario where we were able to get rid of all the foriegners and wished to do that.

[BCG Jason]

FG, I never said getting rid of all the foreigners just the ones on benefits and the ones that commit crimes. We would then be in a position to see what we needed as well as reducing costs to the economy.

[flamingreen]

FG, I never said getting rid of all the foreigners just the ones on benefits and the ones that commit crimes. We would then be in a position to see what we needed as well as reducing costs to the economy.

That again isnt realistic. Those on benefit are almost all legal, they are either EU citizens, those granted British citizenship, or thos egranted permanent leave to remain. You can surley see the huge problems involved in chucking out these people, certainly whiel w eare in the EU, and for the second two groups even beyond. That leaves those who commit crimes, again even with a withdrawal from the ECHR it is very unlikely that Britain would choose to throw out those who have been granted Citizenship for minor criminal offences, so the most we could hope for would be throwing out of offenders who had simply been given leave to remian and the most serious offenders who were given Citizenship. Both these changes would be most welcome, but would have minimal effect in terms of reducing the foriegn popualtion numbers. Hence for the present the sensible decision is NOt continue admitting foriegners fairly freely if they are highly skilled, but to end all immigration except of truly exceptional individuals bringing world class talent.

Going back to my first point some of my friends think we need immigration or otherwise who is going to pay the taxes for our pensions?

This is an interestign point, however immigration is certainly not the answer.

Firstly because of the high cost of immigrants and their low earnigns the overall contribution made by them, compared to the added strains they put on services, is minimal. They offer very little financial benefit. I suspect that if we factor in the long term costs of needing massive extra infrastruture, roads schools hosptials etc to meet their needs, that their overall input would actually be negative. When you consider the richesT popualtions tend to be in those coutnries with good resources and small populations ,the argument that growing the economy (gdp)via immigration adds to wealth does not seem to apply to avergae wealth per head.

SECONDLY, the whoel world is ageing, and immigrants age too. Thus immigration cannot ever be more than a temporary sticking plaster solution. Unless we take the decision to bump off the elderly perhaps at the point where they can no longer be self sufficient (a brutal and terrifying *solution* that only human societies living the most desperately marginal existence have ever chosen to adopt), then not jsut us in the West but the whole world has to adapt to a much older demography. We need blue sky thinking in this matter NOT a doomed attempt to cling on to the old demographic mix by importing younger workers. When the point comes that this is no longer feasible, we will have to adapt anyway, and it will be many many times more difficult with a highly heterogenous multiculti popualtion of 90, 100, 120 million, than it would be to do it now while the ethnic British still form the majority of the 80 odd million here. Indeed one could argue that the wealthy world, Britain Japan Germany etc has a duty to lead the way, and show the developing world India and then Africa hwo they can adjust to their own presently or future ageing popualtions.

Thirdly. I do not believe that because ethnic British peopel currently have a below replacement level birthrate that this is now inevitable goign to remain the case, or that it is caused by equality for women. Most families who have only one child do not do so through chopice, it is because they feel they cannot afford to have a second child. The vast majority of people would like two, some would even like three, and avery few want four or more (as is shown by the significant numbers of super rich who DO have four or more children. In a less crowded Britain where housign was affordable and jobs plentiful enough that women could take the risk of dropping out of work for a few years, knowing they could return, then a believ we would see at least a small increase in the birth rate, which could well be enough to keep our popualtion fairly constant. I really dont think we'd dwindle away until our island emptied!

[BCG Jason]

Some interesting points and I was thinking to do this despite the EU, unrealistic just now of course yet an idea to move towards.

I like your point about UK, Germany and Japan leading the way but with 1 in 8 adults working as a carer I think the older are not living quality lives so we would need to edcuate them about health which would need tackling the NHS which has sold out to vested interests and PC.
Can we stop the 'white flight' and by that I mean young ambitious UK people that want to live in a sunnier climate or marry a foreign girl who wants to raise a family in her home country.... it has happened to all 3 males of my generation, US, Spanish and Swedish none are attracted to UK women all 3 are considering moving abroad in the near future.

I also believe we would need employers willing to educate our workers and this would be more expensive, I meet South Americans, East Europeans, Africans who are cleaners, kitchen staff or working cafes they have qualifications in sciences, speak more than one European language and are nice to talk to. I don't like to say it but I find British workers in these jobs the opposite most either have an attitude or are just grumpy (or depressed). How would you suggest we change this?

[Bevois]

unless we take the decision to bump off the elderly perhaps at the point where they can no longer be self sufficient (a brutal and terrifying *solution* that only human societies living the most desperately marginal existence have ever chosen to adopt)

This is happening already, although the evidence is anecdotal - elderly patients being denied food and water in hospitals etc
I read recently that in Chicago, they are going round old peoples' homes getting signatures of consent for voluntary euthansia - a lawyer attends as a witness and to make sure its all legal.