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Thread: Muslims 'must embrace democracy' says David Cameron

  1. #51
    Trusted Member Francis Overdere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Edwards View Post
    Mob rule that has got out of hand. Under normal circumstances this does not occur.



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17677017

    Galloway’s Respect could be Bradford power brokers
    The Syrian government has now killed 5 times as many of its own people as there were "civilian" deaths of Lebanese during the 2006 war with Israel. Where are the Muslim protests? Where are the Muslim nations prepared to act to stop this slaughter.

    Nowhere to be seen.
    This is England and .....

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilde View Post
    I think this isn't quite right. Sharia is not the Quran. Sharia is based on the Quran plus the Sunnah. The Sunnah is the practices and opinions of the Prophet Muhammed as recorded mainly after his demise by assorted writers of varying degrees of reliability.
    On top of Sharia and often confused with it is fiqh, which is the body of jurisprudence and traditional interpretation which has grown up since Islam was founded.
    This is why many precepts widely regarded as sharia cannot be found in the Quran. For instance, the Quran says nothing about a requirement for women to cover their hair. I believe it says something about a need for women to cover their breasts, but that is all. Yet a woman who tries to wander through Jeddah with her hair uncovered will rapidly attract the attention of the morality police, and they will not be mollified if she points out that the Quran does not require her to wear a headscarf.
    Thank you for that elaboration on my previous post. Nevertheless, Sharia law is based on the Holy Qur'an (notwithstanding the hadiths) and the injunctions in the Holy Qur'an are open to interpretation.

    Styles of head covering for Muslim women can vary from state to state and it is said you can recognise the country of origin by the style. The injunction in the Holy Qur'an is that a woman must show modesty. The requirements for modesty have thus been interpreted and have become both a cultural and a religious requirement.

    I am reading from my copy of the Holy Qur'an (published by the King Fahd Holy Qur'an Printing Complex):

    Surat 24

    31:
    And say to the believing women
    That they should lower
    Their gaze and guard
    Their modesty; that they
    Should not display their
    Beauty and ornaments except
    What (ordinarily) appear
    Thereof; that they should
    Draw their veils over
    Their bosoms and not display
    Their beauty except
    To their husbands, their fathers,
    Their husband's fathers, their sons,
    Their husbands' sons,
    Their brothers or their brothers' sons,
    Or their sisters' sons,
    Or their women, or the slaves
    Whom their right hands
    Possess, or male attendants
    Free of sexual desires,
    Or small children who
    Have no carnal knowledge of women;

    And that they
    Should not strike their feet
    In order to draw attention
    To their hidden ornaments.
    And O ye Believers!
    Turn ye altogether
    Towards Allah in repentance that ye
    May be successful.

    Marry those among you
    Who are single, and
    The virtuous ones among
    Your slaves, male or female:
    If they are in poverty.

  3. #53
    Trusted Member Rebirth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Edwards View Post
    Surat 24
    Don't you mean 'Surah'?

    This one is interesting:
    57. Never think thou that the Unbelievers are going to frustrate ((Allah)'s Plan) on earth: their abode is the Fire,- and it is indeed an evil refuge!
    From your bit -
    Should not display their
    Beauty and ornaments except
    What (ordinarily) appear
    What does this have to do with the covering of hair?

    Marry those among you
    Who are single, and
    The virtuous ones among
    Your slaves, male or female:
    If they are in poverty.
    Marrying your male slaves, huh?
    Damaging state property will be punished to the maximum extent allowed by law. You are property of the state.

  4. #54
    Trusted Member Francis Overdere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Edwards View Post
    Thank you for that elaboration on my previous post. Nevertheless, Sharia law is based on the Holy Qur'an (notwithstanding the hadiths) and the injunctions in the Holy Qur'an are open to interpretation.

    Styles of head covering for Muslim women can vary from state to state and it is said you can recognise the country of origin by the style. The injunction in the Holy Qur'an is that a woman must show modesty. The requirements for modesty have thus been interpreted and have become both a cultural and a religious requirement.

    I am reading from my copy of the Holy Qur'an (published by the King Fahd Holy Qur'an Printing Complex):

    Surat 24

    31:
    And say to the believing women
    That they should lower
    Their gaze and guard
    Their modesty; that they
    Should not display their
    Beauty and ornaments except
    What (ordinarily) appear
    Thereof; that they should
    Draw their veils over
    Their bosoms and not display
    Their beauty except
    To their husbands, their fathers,
    Their husband's fathers, their sons,
    Their husbands' sons,
    Their brothers or their brothers' sons,
    Or their sisters' sons,
    Or their women, or the slaves
    Whom their right hands
    Possess, or male attendants
    Free of sexual desires,
    Or small children who
    Have no carnal knowledge of women;

    And that they
    Should not strike their feet
    In order to draw attention
    To their hidden ornaments.
    And O ye Believers!
    Turn ye altogether
    Towards Allah in repentance that ye
    May be successful.

    Marry those among you
    Who are single, and
    The virtuous ones among
    Your slaves, male or female:
    If they are in poverty.
    All your quotation does is prove the futility of Islam and that much of it was stolen from Christianity. Women were advised to dress modestly by St.Paul,long before Mohammed was even born.

    1 Timothy 2:9-10: "Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness."
    This is England and .....

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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Overdere View Post
    All your quotation does is prove the futility of Islam and that much of it was stolen from Christianity. Women were advised to dress modestly by St.Paul,long before Mohammed was even born.
    1 Timothy 2:9-10: "Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness."
    In that case, Islam is perfectly compatible with Christianity, as I have always claimed.

  6. #56
    Trusted Member Francis Overdere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Edwards View Post
    In that case, Islam is perfectly compatible with Christianity, as I have always claimed.
    But it isn't. If it was perfectly compatible there would be no need for it. Most of Islam has been stolen from either Judaism or Christianity. Mohammed would have been aware of Christianity. There were Christian missionaries,congregations and churches in Saudi.

    Any one who wants a religion doesn't need Islam since Christianity,even from a secular viewpoint has the "golden rule." Everything else is pointless.You don't need to face Mecca to pray if you believe in a god,you don't need to take your shoes off.

    If you practise a religion and believe that God created the universe why do you think your god would care which way you faced or whether you had your shoes on or not?

    If you were God would you be concerned about all that nonsense? Of course not.
    This is England and .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Overdere View Post
    But it isn't. If it was perfectly compatible there would be no need for it. Most of Islam has been stolen from either Judaism or Christianity. Mohammed would have been aware of Christianity. There were Christian missionaries,congregations and churches in Saudi.
    Any one who wants a religion doesn't need Islam since Christianity,even from a secular viewpoint has the "golden rule." Everything else is pointless.You don't need to face Mecca to pray if you believe in a god,you don't need to take your shoes off.

    If you practise a religion and believe that God created the universe why do you think your god would care which way you faced or whether you had your shoes on or not?
    If you were God would you be concerned about all that nonsense? Of course not.
    Both Christianity and Islam are of the Abrahamic tradition. However, Islam corrects certain doctrinal errors in the Christian church, as it sees it. That is why Islam is relevant to 2 billion people.

  8. #58
    Trusted Member Better Britain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Edwards View Post
    Both Christianity and Islam are of the Abrahamic tradition. However, Islam corrects certain doctrinal errors in the Christian church, as it sees it. That is why Islam is relevant to 2 billion people.
    Doctrinal errors ? Such as ?
    There will never be a socalist utopia, Nothings perfect.

  9. #59
    Moderator angelman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Better Britain View Post
    Doctrinal errors ? Such as ?
    And who made these corrections? Don't tell me it was some man and the reason he did it was that it fitted his dogma somewhat better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelman View Post
    And who made these corrections? Don't tell me it was some man and the reason he did it was that it fitted his dogma somewhat better.
    Hmmm sounds about right doesn't it ? a man making a correction on another mans mistakes about something This supposed divine messenger got wrong.
    Grow up humanity there maybe such things as gods in the universe but its doubtful they would give a **** about our trivialities who's to say they are not anymore deluded then the rest of us are....If they are there.
    There will never be a socalist utopia, Nothings perfect.

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