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Thread: Abrupt Climate Change Reversal

  1. #21
    Moderator Besoeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chimera View Post
    The situation is where the mass and weight have no differing forces. My comment is the hypothetical example such that the two are identical. This is to illustrate the situation of unity, so the weight is "accordingly"=the mass. It's a argument about English,
    It's not an argument at all. Weight and mass are simply not identical.

    Quote Originally Posted by chimera View Post
    not about astronauts' physics.
    I introduced the weightlessness of astronauts to illustrate the difference between weight and mass and as a way to aid understanding of that difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by chimera View Post
    Presumably, the other implied indicators, whatever the author had in mind, are insignificant in his view.
    Ah, you may imagine that about other indicators but that is putting your own words into the sentences.
    In any case, other factors are not just significant. They are determining factors. Without mass there would be no kinetic energy.
    KE = 0.5mv2

    No m, no KE.

    And I'm pretty sure that the author knows that.
    Last edited by Besoeker; 14-04-2012 at 02:07 AM.
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  2. #22
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    A mass with zero acceleration at rest in gravity=weight in gravity. Are you now also intruding this extraneous equation into the author's intent? As the author only mentions wind-speed, then his English only refers to that as "accordingly" the value of energy.
    If he doesn't state whether other factors are fixed, or not, then how can you presume he has considered it? What does his word "accordingly" apply to in his written text?
    Last edited by chimera; 16-04-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  3. #23
    Trusted Member Tim the plumber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chimera View Post
    A mass with zero acceleration at rest in gravity=weight in gravity. Are you now also intruding this extraneous equation into the author's intent? As the author only mentions wind-speed, then his English only refers to that as "accordingly" the value of energy.
    Mass is not weight. What are you talking about? If the mass is in a gravity well it has acceleration due to gravity. Weight is the force it presses down with, onto whatever is supporting it, due to gravity.

    "Weight in gravity" has no meaning.
    I've finally got a web site to work!! See my page thingy.

  4. #24
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    A weight resting on the ground by gravity is the same as mass with no movement , zero acceleration, and resting on the ground by gravity.
    Whatever, the article does not mention weight, mass, gravity or the driver of the 7.09 train going north. The speed of water in a drainpipe may be equal to the speed of the Amazon. 11 kmh is the same in Brazil and Sheffield and has meaning by itself, and does not mean that 7586,049 cu metres of water are flowing from No.34 Smith Street.

  5. #25
    Moderator ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chimera View Post
    A weight resting on the ground by gravity is the same as mass with no movement , zero acceleration, and resting on the ground by gravity.
    Whatever, the article does not mention weight, mass, gravity or the driver of the 7.09 train going north. The speed of water in a drainpipe may be equal to the speed of the Amazon. 11 kmh is the same in Brazil and Sheffield and has meaning by itself, and does not mean that 7586,049 cu metres of water are flowing from No.34 Smith Street.
    Weight is mass x acceleration due to gravity - when resting on the ground net force is zero but the acceleration is not. Statics is the dullest part of Physics, you may well have slept through it.

    Anyway...whatever.

  6. #26
    Moderator Besoeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chimera View Post
    A mass with zero acceleration at rest in gravity=weight in gravity.
    In this case, the mass is not at rest.
    KE = 0.5mv2
    applies and is independent of gravity.
    Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.

  7. #27
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    However, whatever, the article is not about the force. the throw-weight of a hurricane. He is defining increase in alleged AGW energy.
    [Thermal energy is thus equally partitioned between all available quadratic degrees of freedom of the particles. As noted, these degrees of freedom may include pure translational motion in gases, in rotational states, and as potential and kinetic energy in normal modes of vibrations in intermolecular or crystal lattice vibrations. In general, due to quantum mechanical reasons, the availability of any such degrees of freedom is a function of the energy in the system, and therefore depends on the temperature (see heat capacity for discussion of this phenomena). Macroscopically, the thermal energy of a system at a given temperature is related proportionally to its heat capacity.]
    Other "indicators" may presumably be whether it happens on a Thursday, the loss of window glass, the loss of houses. He says nothing, zero, about that. It may be that he takes the weight of air and water as constant, whatever, he only talks about the speed indicator. He only says speed indicates AGW energy. Possibly he slept through Physics, we will never know, and we will never know why he wrote "accordingly" , but he did. He is a denier, whatever.

  8. #28
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    Mass is a measurement of matter. Weight is a measurement of that matter in gravity.

    Here (on earth!) lets say you buy a sack of potatoes that weighs 25 Kg, well on the moon it would weigh approximately 1/6th of that (~4.2Kg) but the mass does not change - you still have the same number of potatoes.
    Temperatures may go down as well as up terms and conditions apply.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chimera View Post
    However, whatever, the article is not about the force.
    You may be getting there. The article isn't about force. It's about the amount of energy as indicated by hurricane wind speed.
    The relationship between speed and energy is:
    KE = 0.5mv2

    I imagine Pielke Jr knows that.
    Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.

  10. #30
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    Then the weight as mass of water is half of his calculation. As Energy and speed are constant, then the mass must be also. That is a complex and large scale project involving air-density of water, the gradient across and vertically, circular water lift and fall and time extent of varying combinations. It must be done for past and present hurricanes for comparison. The temperature is by contrast a simple observation. You all assume that he did this for the life of the hurricanes to gather his figure for "Energy".
    It is more likely in the context of his English that he just connected speed to Thermal Energy and thus temperature, ignoring mass.
    Either way, mass cannot be reasonably be part of his statement. You have presumed he meant mass when that is not evident, and the chat about weight.gravity.mass is a red herring.

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