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Thread: Destroy all churches - Saudi Arabia

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    Trusted Member Rebirth's Avatar
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    Default Destroy all churches - Saudi Arabia

    EDITORIAL: Destroy all churches
    Obama silent while Saudi grand mufti targets Christianity


    By THE WASHINGTON TIMES
    The Washington Times
    Friday, March 16, 2012


    If the pope called for the destruction of all the mosques in Europe, the uproar would be cataclysmic. Pundits would lambaste the church, the White House would rush out a statement of deep concern, and rioters in the Middle East would kill each other in their grief. But when the most influential leader in the Muslim world issues a fatwa to destroy Christian churches, the silence is deafening.

    On March 12, Sheik Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah, the grand mufti of Saudi Arabia, declared that it is “necessary to destroy all the churches of the region.” The ruling came in response to a query from a Kuwaiti delegation over proposed legislation to prevent construction of churches in the emirate. The mufti based his decision on a story that on his deathbed, Muhammad declared, “There are not to be two religions in the [Arabian] Peninsula.” This passage has long been used to justify intolerance in the kingdom. Churches have always been banned in Saudi Arabia, and until recently Jews were not even allowed in the country. Those wishing to worship in the manner of their choosing must do so hidden away in private, and even then the morality police have been known to show up unexpectedly and halt proceedings.

    This is not a small-time radical imam trying to stir up his followers with fiery hate speech. This was a considered, deliberate and specific ruling from one of the most important leaders in the Muslim world. It does not just create a religious obligation for those over whom the mufti has direct authority; it is also a signal to others in the Muslim world that destroying churches is not only permitted but mandatory.

    The Obama administration ignores these types of provocations at its peril. The White House has placed international outreach to Muslims at the center of its foreign policy in an effort to promote the image of the United States as an Islam-friendly nation. This cannot come at the expense of standing up for the human rights and religious liberties of minority groups in the Middle East. The region is a crucial crossroads. Islamist radicals are leading the rising political tide against the authoritarian, secularist old order. They are testing the waters in their relationship with the outside world, looking for signals of how far they can go in imposing their radical vision of a Shariah-based theocracy. Ignoring provocative statements like the mufti’s sends a signal to these groups that they can engage in the same sort of bigotry and anti-Christian violence with no consequences.

    Mr. Obama’s outreach campaign to the Muslim world has failed to generate the good will that he expected. In part, this was because he felt it was better to pander to prejudice than to command respect. When members of the Islamic establishment call for the religious equivalent of ethnic cleansing, the leader of the free world must respond or risk legitimizing the oppression that follows. The United States should not bow to the extremist dictates of the grand mufti, no matter how desperate the White House is for him to like us.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-all-churches/

    Good ol one way tolerance will be the death of us.

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    Trusted Member Marilyn's Avatar
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    I believe Saudi funds a lot of mosque building in Europe and seeds them with extemists .. it has an extreme form of islam, wahabbism, and exports it.
    There is no tolerance for any other religion or sects inside Saudi Arabia .. and I believe it was behind 911 to keep the USA on side fighting other forms of islam and the more secular leaning muslim countries on its behalf. That is one conspiracy I can believe in.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi
    Last edited by Marilyn; 01-04-2012 at 06:41 AM.

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    Trusted Member Robert Edwards's Avatar
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    Top Rabbi says kill all Arab men, women and children ... even their cattle.

    To paraphrase Marilyn:
    There is no tolerance for any other religion or sects inside Israel
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    Trusted Member Rebirth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn View Post
    I believe Saudi funds a lot of mosque building in Europe and seeds them with extemists .. it has an extreme form of islam, wahabbism, and exports it.
    There is no tolerance for any other religion or sects inside Saudi Arabia .. and I believe it was behind 911 to keep the USA on side fighting other forms of islam and the more secular leaning muslim countries on its behalf. That is one conspiracy I can believe in.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi
    They funded the East London mosque.

    As for the traitor:

    The Rabbi you speak of doesn't even live in Israel and is just a loon.

    Sheik Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah, the grand mufti of Saudi Arabia, however:
    This is not a small-time radical imam trying to stir up his followers with fiery hate speech. This was a considered, deliberate and specific ruling from one of the most important leaders in the Muslim world.
    Saudi Arabia is anti-J00, and has been for donkey's years. Of course, you love the Saudi's and would support them no matter what, but what relation does your j00 video have with Christian Churches?
    Last edited by Rebirth; 01-04-2012 at 07:19 AM.

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    Trusted Member Robert Edwards's Avatar
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    http://www.haaretz.com/news/chabad-r...g-war-1.277616

    Chabad rabbi: Jews should kill Arab men, women and children during war

    Rabbi Manis Friedman clarifies his controversial comment as quote from Torah permissible in case of self-defense.

    By The Forward and Nathaniel Popper Tags: Chabad Jewish World Israel news Palestinians




    Like the best Chabad-Lubavitch rabbis, Manis Friedman has won the hearts of many unaffiliated Jews with his charismatic talks about love and God; it was Friedman who helped lead Bob Dylan into a relationship with Chabad.
    But Friedman, who today travels the country as a Chabad speaker, showed a less warm and cuddly side when he was asked how he thinks Jews should treat their Arab neighbors.
    "The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle)," Friedman wrote in response to the question posed by Moment Magazine for its "Ask the Rabbis" feature.
    Friedman argued that if Israel followed this wisdom, there would be "no civilian casualties, no children in the line of fire, no false sense of righteousness, in fact, no war."
    "I don't believe in Western morality," he wrote. "Living by Torah values will make us a light unto the nations who suffer defeat because of a disastrous morality of human invention."
    Friedman's use of phrasing that might seem more familiar coming from an Islamic extremist has generated a swift backlash. The editor of Moment, Nadine Epstein, said that since the piece was printed in the current issue they "have received many letters and e-mails in response to Rabbi Friedman's comments - and almost none of them have been positive."
    Friedman quickly went into damage control. He released a statement to the Forward, through a Chabad spokesman, saying that his answer in Moment was "misleading" and that he does believe that "any neighbor of the Jewish people should be treated, as the Torah commands us, with respect and compassion."
    But Friedman's words have generated a debate about whether there is a darker side to the cheery face that the Chabad-Lubavitch movement shows to the world in its friendly outreach to unaffiliated Jews. Mordecai Specktor, editor of the Jewish community newspaper in Friedman's hometown, St. Paul. Minnesota, said: "The public face of Lubavitch is educational programs and promoting Yiddishkeit. But I do often hear this hard line that Friedman expresses here."
    "He sets things out in pretty stark terms, but I think this is what Lubavitchers believe, more or less," said Specktor, who is also the publisher of the American Jewish World.
    "They are not about loving the Arabs or a two-state solution or any of that stuff. They are fundamentalists. They are our fundamentalists."
    Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League and a regular critic of Arab extremists, said that in the Jewish community, "We are not immune to having these views. There are people in our community who have these bigoted, racist views."
    But, Foxman warned, Friedman's views are not reflective of the Chabad rabbis he knows. "I am not shocked that there would be a rabbi who would have these views," Foxman said, "but I am shocked that Moment would give up all editorial discretion and good sense to publish this as representative of Chabad."
    A few days after anger about the comment surfaced, Chabad headquarters released a statement saying that, "we vehemently disagree with any sentiment suggesting that Judaism allows for the wanton destruction of civilian life, even when at war."
    The statement added: "In keeping with Jewish law, it is the unequivocal position of Chabad-Lubavitch that all human life is G-d given, precious, and must be treated with respect, dignity and compassion."
    In Moment, Friedman's comment is listed as the Chabad response to the question "How Should Jews Treat Their Arab Neighbors?" after a number of answers from rabbis representing other Jewish streams, most of which state a conciliatory attitude toward Arabs.
    Epstein said that Friedman was "brave" for stating his views so clearly.
    "The American Jewish community doesn't have the chance to hear opinions like this," Epstein said, "not because they are rare, but because we don't often ask Chabad and other similar groups what they think."
    The Chabad movement is generally known for its hawkish policies toward the Palestinians; the Chabad Rebbe, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, rejected peace accords with the Palestinians. Rabbi Moshe Feller, the top Chabad rabbi in Minnesota, said that the rebbe taught that it is not a mitzvah to kill, but that Jews do have an obligation to act in self-defense.
    "Jews as a whole, they try to save the lives of others," Feller told the Forward, "but if it's to save our lives, then we have to do what we have to do. It's a last resort."
    Friedman is not a fringe rabbi within the Chabad-Lubavitch movement. He was the English translator for the Chabad Rebbe, and at the rebbe's urging, he founded Beis Chana, a network of camps and schools for Jewish women. Friedman is also a popular speaker and writer on issues of love and relationships. His first book, "Doesn't Anyone Blush Anymore?" was promoted with a quote from Bob Dylan, who Friedman brought to meet the rebbe.
    On his blog and Facebook page, Friedman's emphasis is on his sympathetic, caring side. It was this reputation that made the comment in Moment so surprising to Steve Hunegs, director of the Jewish Community Relations Council: Minnesota and the Dakotas.
    "Rabbi Friedman is a best-selling author who addresses some of the most sensitive issues of the time," Hunegs said. "I intend to call him and talk to him about this."
    But Shmarya Rosenberg, a blogger and critic of Chabad who lives a few blocks from Friedman in Minnesota, says that the comment in Moment is not an aberration from his experiences with Friedman and many other Chabad rabbis.
    "What he's saying is the standard normal view of a Chabadnik," Rosenberg said. "They just don't say it in public."
    For his part, Friedman was quick to modify the statement that he wrote in Moment. He told the Forward that the line about killing women and children should have been in quotes; he said it is a line from the Torah, though he declined to specify from which part. Friedman also said that he was not advocating for Israel to actually kill women and children. Instead, he said, he believed that Israel should publicly say that it is willing to do these things in order to scare Palestinians and prevent war.
    "If we took this policy, no one would be killed - because there would be no war," Friedman said. "The same is true of the United States."
    Friedman did acknowledge, however, that in self-defense, the behavior he talked about would be permissible.
    "If your children are threatened, you do whatever it takes - and you don't have to apologize," he said.
    Friedman argued that he is different from Arab terrorists who have used similar language about killing Jewish civilians.
    "When they say it, it's genocide, not self-defense," Friedman said. "With them, it's a religious belief - they need to rid the area of us. We're not saying that."
    Feller, the Chabad leader in Minnesota, said that the way Friedman had chosen to express himself was "radical."
    "I love him," Feller said. "I brought him out here - he's magnificent. He's brought thousands back to Torah mitzvah. But he shoots from the hip sometimes."
    Contact Nathaniel Popper at popper@forward.com.
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    Trusted Member Robert Edwards's Avatar
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    http://www.haaretz.com/news/chabad-r...g-war-1.277616

    Chabad rabbi: Jews should kill Arab men, women and children during war
    www.europeanaction.com
    Britain First in Europe a Nation

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    Trusted Member Rebirth's Avatar
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    Edwards - What does this have to do with Christian Churches in Saudi Arabia? Are you saying because some loony Rabbi in the US said something a couple of years ago, all Churches in the Muslim world should and will burn, whilst Christians are battered to death all over the Islamist world?

    Twisted Edwards, even for a traitor like you.

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    Trusted Member Robert Edwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebirth View Post
    Edwards - What does this have to do with Christian Churches in Saudi Arabia? Are you saying because some loony Rabbi in the US said something a couple of years ago, all Churches in the Muslim world should and will burn, whilst Christians are battered to death all over the Islamist world?

    Twisted Edwards, even for a traitor like you.
    Nothing whatsoever. 'Traitors' like me are simply redressing the balance. While you demonise Saudis (recently hosting a visit in Riyadh by their ally Hilary Clinton), I am showing the viewers how Jews view non-Jews. Is that alright? Do I have permission from the champion of the fascist EDL?
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    Trusted Member Rebirth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Edwards View Post
    Nothing whatsoever. 'Traitors' like me are simply redressing the balance. While you demonise Saudis (recently hosting a visit in Riyadh by their ally Hilary Clinton), I am showing the viewers how Jews view non-Jews. Is that alright? Do I have permission from the champion of the fascist EDL?
    What balance? All you ever go on about is Israel (a nation the size of a county) whilst sucking off UAFers and Nazi types.

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    Trusted Member Robert Edwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebirth View Post
    What balance? All you ever go on about is Israel (a nation the size of a county) whilst sucking off UAFers and Nazi types.
    Are you suggesting I indulge in fellatio?
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