Pope weighs into gay marriage row

[Higher]

Pope weighs into gay marriage row condemning 'powerful, political and cultural currents'

By Steve Doughty
PUBLISHED: 21:02, 9 March 2012

Veto: The Pope has refused to support same-sex marriages

The Pope yesterday condemned David Cameron’s plan to allow same-sex marriage, calling it an attack on justice.
He said that marriage between a man and a woman must be preserved because it protects parents, children and the whole of society.
Pope Benedict urged Roman Catholics to stand against ‘powerful political and cultural currents seeking to alter the legal definition of marriage’.
The remarks were timed to add Papal authority to the campaign against same-sex marriage launched this week by Roman Catholic leaders in Britain.
A letter in which two archbishops say a new law would undermine the family is to be read to Catholic congregations in England and Wales tomorrow, and Scottish Cardinal Keith O’Brien has strongly attacked the plan.
In the Church of England, both Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams and Archbishop of York John Sentamu have opposed it, following the campaigning lead set by former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey.
The stance of church leaders means that Mr Cameron is likely to face determined opposition when he introduces his same-sex marriage scheme in a consultation paper later this month.
The Pope made the Vatican’s view plain in discussions with a group of visiting American bishops.


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• Paedophile priest who abused boys for almost two decades is jailed for 22 years

Discussing the political campaign to change the nature of marriage, Benedict said: ‘The Church’s conscientious effort to resist this pressure calls for a reasoned defence of marriage as a natural institution consisting of a specific communion of persons, essentially rooted in the complementarity of the sexes and oriented to procreation.
‘Sexual differences cannot be dismissed as irrelevant to the definition of marriage.’
The Pope continued: ‘Defending the institution of marriage as a social reality is ultimately a question of justice, since it entails safeguarding the good of the entire human community and the rights of parents and children alike.’


Supporter: David Cameron has backed same-sex marriages

Benedict said there were serious problems caused by cohabitation among couples ‘who seem unaware that it is gravely sinful, not to mention damaging to the stability of society.
‘Let me conclude by recalling that all our efforts in this area are ultimately concerned with the good of children, who have a fundamental right to grow up with a healthy understanding of sexuality and its proper place in human relationships.
‘Children are the greatest treasure and the future of every society: truly caring for them means recognising our responsibility to teach, defend and live by the moral virtues which are the key to human fulfilment.’
The Pope’s standing in Britain has been high since his visit in 2010, when his charge that Christianity is being pushed out of public life struck a chord with many.
However in recent years the churches have lost their major political battles with the gay rights lobby.
Five years ago Tony Blair’s government passed a set of Sexual Orientation Regulations, despite a Cabinet rebellion by Catholic ministers and the reluctance of the Prime Minister himself, which made it unlawful for any organisation that offers a public service to refuse it to same-sex couples.
As a result, 11 Roman Catholic adoption agencies have shut down or severed links with the Church because they are no longer allowed to decline to place children with gay or lesbian couples.
Mr Cameron’s ministers have assured the churches that same-sex marriage will be permitted only through civil ceremonies, and churches will not be forced to celebrate gay marriages.
However Church of England lawyers believe that if same-sex marriage becomes lawful, then under the Sexual Orientation Regulations churches will be compelled to offer weddings to gay couples.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ondemning.html

[Lolkitten]

Why is the opinion of the head of the worlds largest paedophile organisation important?

[Eijnar]

Anyone who can't see that this change is intended to destroy the idea of Marriage being intended to bring together a man and a woman in a sacred union must be several butties short of a picnic. The hatred and fear felt by the ruling fascist elite towards any religion but their own liberal progressivism is quite palpable. It should be remembered that Fascism came from the left and has always remained an integral part of that section of the political spectrum.The French Revolution saw the birth of Fascism and it was taken up by the Communists and Socialists with real enthusiasm.Mussolini was a card carrying communist for many years and always proclaimed his love of socialism even to the end of his life,Hitler was a National Socialist and obviously Stalin and Mao were both communists. No real difference existed between any of them as can be seen by their methods and intentions.

And in EVERY single case these political movements tried to smash all existing religions. The reason for this hatred of existing religion was that in every case they wanted to establish their own political views as a new religion hence the hostility towards any existing competitor for peoples devotion.

Our supposedly liberal elite are anything but liberal,they will not stop until they have imposed their views on everybody,all must worship at the altar of liberalism where no one is allowed to hold or express a view that they do not approve of. The Roman Catholic Church is the Big One as far as the New Fascists are concerned,if they can break this they will be close to total victory and a new dark age will sweep over the world in which no person will be allowed to hold any wrong opinion nor behave in a manner that is not consistant with liberal thought.What right has the government to dictate what people eat,drink,smoke or say to each other down the pub? Regardless of whether you are a believer in any existing religion you should get behind the Roman Catholic Church as soon as possible as when they are gone the evil that will spew out over the world will be beyond all baring.

[Higher]

The National Secular Society responds


Confrontation over gay marriage could change the relationship between religion and the state

Posted: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 11:26 by Terry Sanderson
It's happening all around the world. An increasingly politicised Catholic Church is manufacturing confrontations with governments in an effort to increase its influence and revitalise its dwindling flocks.
It is clear from what the Pope has been saying over the past five years that he intends to return Catholicism to what he sees as its rightful place in the heart of Government.
In America, a confrontation with the Obama administration over contraception coincided with the Republican presidential candidate race. Two of the presidential candidates are Catholic and they made full use of the opportunity to present the Obama health insurance policy as "a war on religion". They were playing to the religious right's gallery, making it one hell of a bruising battle.
In Britain, a similar tactic is being played out over gay marriage. The Catholic Church has alighted on this issue as its means of challenging the Government, flexing its muscles and attempting to pressurise a change of direction.
If Mr Cameron yields to this agitation, it will be seen as a demonstration of the Church's power and it will lead to many other regressive demands that politicians will be reluctant to resist. Abortion is the next issue waiting in the wings.
If the Prime Minister stands firm against this present battering, it is the Church that will be badly damaged.
The Catholic hierarchy has tried this tactic before over gay couples accessing Catholic adoption agencies. When the previous government ruled that equality laws really were equality laws and there was no let-out for the Catholic Church, the clerical hierarchy geared up for a major face off with parliament.
But it was to no avail. Despite an unpleasant, sometimes brutish campaign, it lost that battle. Now it is coming back with a challenge over gay marriage.
The language that is being employed, the angry rhetoric that is flying from cardinal's palaces and archbishops lairs, is overblown, bordering on the hysterical. People – Catholics included - are repelled by the nastiness of it, the unnecessary vehemence that is directed at people who, perhaps, they know and love.
Cardinal O'Brien's stupid comparisons with slavery and his incoherent attempts to suggest that heterosexual marriage will be destroyed if gay people have the same rights, do him no favours. The backlash against his utterances has been immediate and almost unanimous. This kind of bigotry is seen by most people as crude and like something from a different era.
Now we have Archbishop Vincent Nichols issuing a letter to all Catholics, to be read out at Mass this Sunday that asks them to support the Church in its campaign to thwart the right of gay people to enjoy civil marriage (that's civil marriage, nothing to do with churches).
It is difficult to know how this will be received, but if opinion polls are anything to go by, the average Catholic in the pew does not share the Vatican's antipathy towards rights for gay people. Few of them will want to take active steps to deny their fellow citizens the right that they enjoy (or not, of course, depending on the state of their marriage).
They know that the answer is: If you don't like gay marriage, don't enter into one. Just as they would say: If you don't like strawberry ice cream, choose vanilla.
But the Church has another agenda. It wants its doctrines written into law so that everyone must observe them. The Catholic Church has failed in its attempts to evangelise the nation, so it will try to force it into Catholicism through legislation.
In many ways there is more at stake here than gay marriage. This is the Catholic Church trying to bully its way into political power through lobbying by intimidation and emotional blackmail. It has many allies on the Conservative back benches.
And now we have a rapidly organising religious right emerging in Britain that will be giving all the support it can to overturn the plans for gay marriage, providing another echo of what is happening in the United States.
Religion is trying to be resurgent in this country. We've been able to laugh at it up until now. But the time has come for us to take it seriously and put up a resistance.
If we don't we will soon feel the impact in our day to day lives.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/20...-and-the-state

[Higher]

What right has the government to dictate what people eat,drink,smoke or say to each other down the pub?

Right mate but what right does the RC church have to tell adults who they can marry? I dont support gay marriage but I dont like it when the church tries to tell us what our laws should be. We had a Reformation to put a stop to all that. Its none of the pope's business.

[Simon de Montfort]

Right mate but what right does the RC church have to tell adults who they can marry? I dont support gay marriage but I dont like it when the church tries to tell us what our laws should be. We had a Reformation to put a stop to all that. Its none of the pope's business.

What right does government have to make a mockery of marriage by opening it up to same-sex couples? The pope is quite right to speak out on this issue as it goes to the heart, not only of our Christian religion, but of our Christian culture and our society too. Everyone who rightly opposes this nihilistic attack on our traditional values and way of life should support the stance taken by both the Roman Catholic Church and the Archbishop of Canterbury. And I speak as an Anglican.

[Chrono Mizaki]

Why is the opinion of the head of the worlds largest paedophile organisation important?

Haha...Well...

...I agree with this.

[Chrono Mizaki]

I support civil partnerships and should open to a union between a man and a woman as well as a man/man and women/women. Religion should feel free to discriminate if they so wish, but allow marriages to be done by the Government for those who want to get married in a same-sex.

[Eijnar]

Right mate but what right does the RC church have to tell adults who they can marry? I dont support gay marriage but I dont like it when the church tries to tell us what our laws should be. We had a Reformation to put a stop to all that. Its none of the pope's business.

You don't seem to grasp that the entire aim of this is to destroy the status of marriage as being in any way linked to the Christian religion and that happens to be our official state religion! The Reformation did not in any way alter the way that Marriage was seen as the preserve of a man and a woman marrying EACH other. This assault on the ancient status of marriage is nothing but an attempt to see Britain turned into a fascist state ,and before you start getting all excited and start posting comments to the effect that I do not know what I am talking about I suggest that you do some actual research on this topic, as you will soon see that a central theme of every former fascist state was the war on religion, and the suppression of all former established values,beliefs,holidays or cultural practices. In a fascist state everything must be subject to the states approval and no aspect of private life is too trivial for the state to get involved.On the contrary the smaller the aspect the more likely the state will seek to interfere because it is by the regulation of trivia that the state robs the citizen of any sense of self or independence from the state.This is why we get endless crud from the government about our diets,drinking habits,not smoking,take more exersise,what type of light bulb to use,love unlimited immigration.....they want to control every aspect of our lives and religion is seen as a challenge to the power of the fascists so it has to be destroyed.

[potemkin]

You don't seem to grasp that the entire aim of this is to destroy the status of marriage as being in any way linked to the Christian religion and that happens to be our official state religion! The Reformation did not in any way alter the way that Marriage was seen as the preserve of a man and a woman marrying EACH other. This assault on the ancient status of marriage is nothing but an attempt to see Britain turned into a fascist state ,and before you start getting all excited and start posting comments to the effect that I do not know what I am talking about I suggest that you do some actual research on this topic, as you will soon see that a central theme of every former fascist state was the war on religion, and the suppression of all former established values,beliefs,holidays or cultural practices. In a fascist state everything must be subject to the states approval and no aspect of private life is too trivial for the state to get involved.On the contrary the smaller the aspect the more likely the state will seek to interfere because it is by the regulation of trivia that the state robs the citizen of any sense of self or independence from the state.This is why we get endless crud from the government about our diets,drinking habits,not smoking,take more exersise,what type of light bulb to use,love unlimited immigration.....they want to control every aspect of our lives and religion is seen as a challenge to the power of the fascists so it has to be destroyed.

What a shock, Gaz finds another conspiracy.