The EU's plans to ban the motor car

[SDP]

Quote from Stephen Odell
Ford CEO Europe

Odell cites the European Commission's recently published the EU White Paper on the Future Transport Policy. “I have to say I found it to be a hugely disappointing document. The proposals outlined in the White Paper – which call for a 50% reduction in internal combustion-engined cars in urban areas by 2030, and a complete ban by 2050 – do not effectively address the issues of congestion and environmental improvement in urban areas. It also effectively proposes to ban cars from out-of-city traffic altogether, by suggesting that such travel should mainly be made by train. Such radical proposals require further discussion and reflection, and they need to respect the principles of technical neutrality and freedom of consumer choice."

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[ron]

Any long term plan to remove our reliance on oil is fine by me quite apart from any other issue. It is about time Western governments created some long term objectives to specifically achieve that goal. Who wants wars for oil?

I'm not surprised Ford are against this, they have been behind the field when looking at alternatives to the internal combustion engine.

[SDP]

Any long term plan to remove our reliance on oil is fine by me quite apart from any other issue. It is about time Western governments created some long term objectives to specifically achieve that goal. Who wants wars for oil?

I'm not surprised Ford are against this, they have been behind the field when looking at alternatives to the internal combustion engine.

Ron

Do you think that banning the motor car will be a vote winner.

[ron]

Ron

Do you think that banning the motor car will be a vote winner.

What has moving to an alternative to the internal combustion engine got to do with banning motor cars?

Wars for oil are not vote winners but with an economy massively dependant on oil, an increasing global demand for oil and increasing costs of extraction there are only likely to be more wars for oil in the future. Planning a long term future without oil, or at least with much less reliance on it, should be a vote winner if people are thinking properly - at which point my argument breaks down.

[alycidond9009]

Vote winner?

You may want to find out what the European Commission IS before making such daft comments....

[BCG Jason]

I think this is about restriction of personal liberty and agenda 21.

[Aardvark]

Agenda 21 doesn't, on a cursory look, deal with the only issue that truly matters. The World is full. Ostensibly there appears to be a lot of land, but vast tracts cannot be effectively farmed. Desertification is increasing as global warming, whatever its origins, is causing the destruction of large areas of agricultural land. Some countries survive on imports of food since they are incapable of producing sufficient for their own needs - the UK is only able to feed 65% or less of its population as it is. There is not enough water for all of us to continue as we do and the south-east and London will be turning taps off some time soon if it doesn't rain solidly for a few months (wait until after the Olympics when we don't have to worry so much).

Cuts in conventional car use will be inevitable as we cannot afford petrol, all of which is imported. I am already looking at how I can reduce my petrol use, or increase my income sufficiently to keep the car on the road, as is my partner. Many people are sacrificing food for petrol as they try to hang onto their jobs. Petrol prices seem to go up by 1 or 2p per litre in between tank fills (that's 5-9p per gallon every couple of weeks). If petrol is less than £1.60 per litre by Xmas, after Iran's supply is cut, I will be very surprised. £1.75p per litre in 12 months' time.

It's not a restriction on personal liberty. The poorest 25% don't have access to a car in any event. The numbers without cars will increase considerably over the next few months. I gave my first lift to a hitch hiker for some time (I always stop in recognition of the fact that my travel as a student was largely courtesy of passing drivers). The guy was hitching in search of work. My grandfather walked from Wrexham to Coventry in the depression; there's a lot more of that about to happen.

Petrol driven cars are a luxury we cannot afford. We should certainly develop alternate technology. There's plenty of opportunities to do so. Our car industry will survive if it adapts new technologies. The mpg figure on the current Jaguar XK, a 5.0 litre V8, is an average 25.2 - that's a hell of a leap from older cars of that size (the E-type was 21.3 on a 3.8 litre engine). The Prius comes in at 50 equivalent, whilst the Mitsubishi i-MiEV is 112! Electric cars will dominate the urban environment in a few years.

Technology, however, will not stop mankind from producing billions of people who will never work. Currently we are over 7 billion people, 26% are under 14, median age is just 28.4 (if you're older then the majority of the world is younger than you). The population increases by 145 per minute (80 million per annum) - 9.1% are unemployed, but this doesn't count underemployment or spouses etc. Source CIA World Fact Book. It states:

Long-standing challenges the world faces are several. The addition of 80 million people each year to an already overcrowded globe is exacerbating the problems of underemployment, pollution, waste-disposal, epidemics, water-shortages, famine, over-fishing of oceans, deforestation, desertification, and depletion of non-renewable resources. The nation-state, as a bedrock economic-political institution, is steadily losing control over international flows of people, goods, funds, and technology

Petrol driven cars will disappear. The logic is inescapable. The world doesn't have the resources. By 2050 there will be over 10 billion people on the planet unless there is divine intervention (man ain't intelligent enough to stop it happening).

[ron]

I think this is about restriction of personal liberty and agenda 21.

Unless we remove our reliance on oil there will be more wars for oil. Obviously the EU force these things on us but I am talking about the general point.

[youngian]

Quote from Stephen Odell
Ford CEO Europe

Odell cites the European Commission's recently published the EU White Paper on the Future Transport Policy. “I have to say I found it to be a hugely disappointing document. The proposals outlined in the White Paper – which call for a 50% reduction in internal combustion-engined cars in urban areas by 2030, and a complete ban by 2050 – do not effectively address the issues of congestion and environmental improvement in urban areas. It also effectively proposes to ban cars from out-of-city traffic altogether, by suggesting that such travel should mainly be made by train. Such radical proposals require further discussion and reflection, and they need to respect the principles of technical neutrality and freedom of consumer choice."

According to that link it says: "Among the goals is no more conventionally-fuelled cars in cities by 2050." Slightly different to "plans to ban the motor car." As Mr Odell works for a car firm that is behind Europe and Japan in electric car technology , he would say that wouldn't he.

I agree with Ron and not only wars but the distinct possbility of the $150-200 barrel of oil (especially if this ludicrous Israeli/US sabre rattling with Iran continues) will send our oil dependent economies into a serious depresssion.
This is from a US president over 30 years ago-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=injqO8nzCK0

Sadly the only of the only Western countries that put its money where its mouth was after the 70s OPEC oil hike was France which is now 80 per cent nuclear.

[Aardvark]

We could have been nuclear by now were it not for Blair and Brown. Wind power cannot cope and we're destroying our economy and countryside to produce b@gger all. One area of high pressure sitting over the UK throughout July and August (as happened before) will shut down all turbines for 9 weeks on end. Then where will the power come from? A winter of high pressure would mean the lights going out.

There is technology that can avoid power cuts, but we're not going to use it. Lions led by mokes.