The ‘workshy’ face a wage of ‘JSA + Expenses’ (Every Little helps)

[Baron von Lotsov]

Yes I know it's hypothetical. But just assume for the sake of the discussion that there is nothing fishy about the contract. It's all legal and no strings. You just have to deliver a quality IT solution and the £1million profit is yours.

Is it still a No?

Lets just say I would have great qualms about accepting it. It would not be something that would make me particularly happy. There would be other factors to consider such as what the IT system is for the purpose of. I'm generally OK about business systems, but once I was offered a lot of money to produce a pornography site and I turned that down without any regret. Admittedly that was a far easier decision. What I'm trying to say here is that the ethical status of a company does factor into decision made both with the consumer and the suppliers to it. This is to be encouraged because ultimately it creates ethical business that is not seen as the enemy. There are other companies where it factors the other way. A company might be supporting something that I approve of and so for such jobs I will do it for less money. I've had quite a few instances where I have had customers in a really sad predicament and I've given them good discounts.

[CB100]

Lets just say I would have great qualms about accepting it. It would not be something that would make me particularly happy.

I understand your qualms but I suspect that, bottom line, you would go for it. I would do the same and I think almost anyone else would too. There are thousands of businesses that feel that same way ie those that trade with them and noone is holding a gun to their heads.

There would be other factors to consider such as what the IT system is for the purpose of. I'm generally OK about business systems, but once I was offered a lot of money to produce a pornography site and I turned that down without any regret. Admittedly that was a far easier decision. What I'm trying to say here is that the ethical status of a company does factor into decision made both with the consumer and the suppliers to it.

If it's a small contract we can all afford to stand by our principles but if it's a big contract and yields a big profit then the decision becomes much more difficult.

Personally I don't see there is anything immoral about trading with Tesco. It's completely different if it were some illegal organisation but Tesco is a mainstream FTSE 100 company. You may not like some of their business practices but most people have to deal with people they don't like from time to time. It's just part of life. So if the contract is big enough and legal, anyone would take it, despite what some say on this forum....

This is to be encouraged because ultimately it creates ethical business that is not seen as the enemy. There are other companies where it factors the other way. A company might be supporting something that I approve of and so for such jobs I will do it for less money. I've had quite a few instances where I have had customers in a really sad predicament and I've given them good discounts.

The "ethical" trade businesses appeal to a minority of consumers and it undoubtedly offers good business opportunities. However, for most consumers, they buy on price and quality and aren't bothered about the "ethical" issues.

One of the things that amuses me about this forum is how many people get so worked up about, so called "bad employers" using cheap labour and yet they buy consumer goods from China etc which have far worse working conditions and rates of pay.

If they really were as pro British as they suggest they would buy British and ensure the jobs were created here. It's funny how they can conveniently separate their behaviour from those of these so called "bad employers". Classic double standards - "Do as I say, not as I do...".

[Baron von Lotsov]

I understand your qualms but I suspect that, bottom line, you would go for it. I would do the same and I think almost anyone else would too. There are thousands of businesses that feel that same way ie those that trade with them and noone is holding a gun to their heads.



If it's a small contract we can all afford to stand by our principles but if it's a big contract and yields a big profit then the decision becomes much more difficult.

Personally I don't see there is anything immoral about trading with Tesco. It's completely different if it were some illegal organisation but Tesco is a mainstream FTSE 100 company. You may not like some of their business practices but most people have to deal with people they don't like from time to time. It's just part of life. So if the contract is big enough and legal, anyone would take it, despite what some say on this forum....



The "ethical" trade businesses appeal to a minority of consumers and it undoubtedly offers good business opportunities. However, for most consumers, they buy on price and quality and aren't bothered about the "ethical" issues.

One of the things that amuses me about this forum is how many people get so worked up about, so called "bad employers" using cheap labour and yet they buy consumer goods from China etc which have far worse working conditions and rates of pay.

If they really were as pro British as they suggest they would buy British and ensure the jobs were created here. It's funny how they can conveniently separate their behaviour from those of these so called "bad employers". Classic double standards - "Do as I say, not as I do...".

You will be please to note that I always try to buy British and I'm happy to pay significantly more for it. The reason is that it is top quality stuff and doesn't fall to bits. I'm a bit old school here in that I appreciate quality in manufacturing. Sometimes I have ended up with Chinese goods by mistake and they have just failed. I paid £40 for this jumper and it now has sleeves about 8 inches long. There is just no honesty in Chinese manufacturing. Those who buy it are on a false economy as well as supporting slave labour. There are many instances where ethical principles are aligned with good economic practices, and I believe buying British is one of them. Some products can keep on going with many times the life of these cheap imports.

[CB100]

Good for you.

It's just worth noting that anyone that buys goods made in China etc has no right to bleat on about slave labour in the UK because they are just as much part of the problem as UK employers paying low wages.

You will be please to note that I always try to buy British and I'm happy to pay significantly more for it. The reason is that it is top quality stuff and doesn't fall to bits. I'm a bit old school here in that I appreciate quality in manufacturing. Sometimes I have ended up with Chinese goods by mistake and they have just failed. I paid £40 for this jumper and it now has sleeves about 8 inches long. There is just no honesty in Chinese manufacturing. Those who buy it are on a false economy as well as supporting slave labour. There are many instances where ethical principles are aligned with good economic practices, and I believe buying British is one of them. Some products can keep on going with many times the life of these cheap imports.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Good for you.

It's just worth noting that anyone that buys goods made in China etc has no right to bleat on about slave labour in the UK because they are just as much part of the problem as UK employers paying low wages.

The trouble these days though which I'm finding is that especially for cloths, some things are impossible to buy a British version of. Marks and Spencer were until recently good at supporting British made goods, but even they have now switched to sweatshops. John Lewis is a good place to buy British made stuff, and just the other day I heard that another major British retailer in the clothing sector has decided to switch back to UK sourcing of goods, but they say they are having trouble finding the goods to keep up with demand. So there could be a bit of a revival happening. Our manufacturers have been through a very tough time, but possibly because people have found the imported stuff is just not what it should be, there is a backlash and the retailers are noticing it. Hopefully this will give the impetus to set up additional manufacturing capacity.

[Steve Morson]

It is a heart. A kiss being blown. A message of love for a board of haters.

You are free to believe whatever you wish BTW. I have never randomly neg repped anyone.

Liar. One of my posts refers, and you've even called upon an unheard-of friend to do the same.

You have nothing but contempt for just about everybody. Which is reciprocated for your infantility.

[Steve Morson]

....One of the things that amuses me about this forum is how many people get so worked up about, so called "bad employers" using cheap labour and yet they buy consumer goods from China etc which have far worse working conditions and rates of pay.

If they really were as pro British as they suggest they would buy British and ensure the jobs were created here. It's funny how they can conveniently separate their behaviour from those of these so called "bad employers". Classic double standards - "Do as I say, not as I do...".

Yet more proof that you live in cloud-cuckoo land. In the last 4 months, I've had 3 things that were made in China all less than 3 years old fail on me, including a hard disk drive. I want to boycott Chinese rubbish. On US television 2 weeks ago, this guy was absolutly amazing. He'd ben to China, and told of someone who died after working 34 hours straight, and that a standard work day is 15 / 16 hours. (I've done a fair few of those in my time.) From some of your posts, it sounds as though you'd welcome that.

Have you actually tried? You sneer at people on this forum (as usual), but have you actually tried to boycott goods made in China? All 3 of the items were ordered over the internet; have you ever seen the "Country of Manufacture" mentioned when buying goods online?

[potemkin]

Liar. One of my posts refers, and you've even called upon an unheard-of friend to do the same.

You have nothing but contempt for just about everybody. Which is reciprocated for your infantility.

I have contempt for the idle who cannot work.

I find your hatred and venom childish and pathetic and do not know who this person i have, in your imagination, Called upon.

I send you the message of love as well. I hope you become at one with yourself, less bitter and angry at the world and the immigrant communities like the romanians who you clearly detest.

[potemkin]

Yet more proof that you live in cloud-cuckoo land. In the last 4 months, I've had 3 things that were made in China all less than 3 years old fail on me, including a hard disk drive. I want to boycott Chinese rubbish. On US television 2 weeks ago, this guy was absolutly amazing. He'd ben to China, and told of someone who died after working 34 hours straight, and that a standard work day is 15 / 16 hours. (I've done a fair few of those in my time.) From some of your posts, it sounds as though you'd welcome that.

Have you actually tried? You sneer at people on this forum (as usual), but have you actually tried to boycott goods made in China? All 3 of the items were ordered over the internet; have you ever seen the "Country of Manufacture" mentioned when buying goods online?

I have been to china several times with work (you may need to google that word). Standard work days are certainly not 15/16 hours with our supply base. Big or small companies and wages and standards of living are increasing.

China produces excellent quality products. It is also not unheard of to get tat in the uk. Europe and america.

Do u hate the chinese as well as romanians ?

[Road_Hog]

I have been to china several times with work (you may need to google that word).

Oh dear, you've got some in the post for that remark. It should arrive late tomorrow.