The Media Creation of 'Devo-Max'

[shagpile]

Trident for the moment is staying where it is because that is in the intrests of all the UK, which is what the Westminister government is responsible for, of course should Scotland decide to leave then that will have to change. In the meantime the policy of Her Majestys Government and she is Queen of Scotland as well is that we retain Trident, the government have a clear mandate on this and until the First Minister gains a mandate to change the matter then really then it really is specualtion

Don't you understand...... move it or loose it? After the referendum and we vote yes. It will be a Scottish asset. You can't "get it back", as you will never have had it. International Law.

[rjt]

Don't you understand...... move it or loose it? After the referendum and we vote yes. It will be a Scottish asset. You can't "get it back", as you will never have had it. International Law.

Not that simple, as the negotiations for withdrawal will have to take place including assets, or are you saying if say the day after the vote Scotland are going to just walk away without negotiating anything?

[shagpile]

Not that simple, as the negotiations for withdrawal will have to take place including assets, or are you saying if say the day after the vote Scotland are going to just walk away without negotiating anything?

That may well be the case, and I'm sure the USA will wish to see them retained, perhaps that may be in your favour. How flexible is the treaty though?

Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These five NWS agree not to transfer "nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices" and "not in any way to assist, encourage, or induce" a non-nuclear weapon state (NNWS) to acquire nuclear weapons (Article I).

The UK will cease to exist, Scotland will become a neuclear armed power. England is not, and under the treaty, can not be armed. There is a precedent on this when the USSR broke up and Ukrane and Belarus became neuclear armed powers.

[shagpile]

Either way, Scotland will not pay for the removal and cleanup. That's a given.

[rjt]

That may well be the case, and I'm sure the USA will wish to see them retained, perhaps that may be in your favour. How flexible is the treaty though?

Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The UK will cease to exist, Scotland will become a neuclear armed power. England is not, and under the treaty, can not be armed. There is a precedent on this when the USSR broke up and Ukrane and Belarus became neuclear armed powers.

England, Wales and Northern Ireland remain, what will happen is that there would be negotations for a removal date, they are not Scotish Weapons they are british, now if the First Minister wants Scotland to be a nuclear country, which he does not as I understand it then there would be a different set of negotions.

It is not real politics for people to start moving things now for a referendum which according to the First Minister is not happening for 2 years which may not go his way, an accomodation will be reached, Alex Salmond is a shrewd man Scotland will retain a close relationship with England, Wales and Northern Ireland if it does go its own way.

[rjt]

Either way, Scotland will not pay for the removal and cleanup. That's a given.

That would be a subject for negotiation one would imagine, i suppose if the rest of the UK wanted to go non nuclear you could keep them, I think we might be too sensible for that though.

[cassie]

In all this doom and gloom scenario, why do you care?

I would have thought you'd be happy with that..... you're scared. You know that an independent Scotland would unilaterally disarm your nuclear dildo. You won't be given another. International Treaty forbids it.

If you guys truly wanted independence, you'd be campaigning for the whole of the UK to have a say, with the result in Scotland largely determining the outcome depending upon turnout and the majority in favour! The fact is YOU and your fellow Scottish nationalists are scared . . . scared that most [non-nationalist] Scots don't support you and scared to give the 40 million voters in England the chance to say whether we'd like you to go, if that is the majority Scottish wish!

As for unilaterally disarming Trident, you're back in fairyland. Yeah, fully armed Naval personnel from England are really going to permit a bunch of hairy, mary peaceniks to board the subs and disarm them!

[cassie]

Either way, Scotland will not pay for the removal and cleanup. That's a given.

Yes, given by England as usual.

[rjt]

If you guys truly wanted independence, you'd be campaigning for the whole of the UK to have a say, with the result in Scotland largely determining the outcome depending upon turnout and the majority in favour! The fact is YOU and your fellow Scottish nationalists are scared . . . scared that most [non-nationalist] Scots don't support you and scared to give the 40 million voters in England the chance to say whether we'd like you to go, if that is the majority Scottish wish!

As for unilaterally disarming Trident, you're back in fairyland. Yeah, fully armed Naval personnel from England are really going to permit a bunch of hairy, mary peaceniks to board the subs and disarm them!

On the last point, I wouldnt put it like that, I dont think we are going to be declaring war on each other but I agree such statements are provocative and unrealistic

[morayloon]

Have you taken into account servicing the state debt, pensions, contributions towards the running costs to the union, contributions to the EU etc etc?

What do you think the £16 billion goes towards?

And that's not including the bailouts of Scottish registered banks HBOS and RBS.

You talk as though it was English money that went in. It was from the UK, and that includes Scotland.

To assert that a nation of 5 million is the equivalent of another of 52 million is absurd!

Right enough there will be 47 million of a difference. Apart from that Scotland will have the same sovereign rights as the rUK

please return our Defence and other public resources . . . Nuclear subs, Army manpower, banks, and other public offices [pensions, tax collections etc]

All of these belong to the UK not England. Scotland will have its share. Anyway, we will be setting up our own Welfare and Taxation systems.

Tesco, Sainsbury etc had better re-organise and re-locate their admin from Scotland to England or they'll suffer

Why would they suffer?

When the territory we now know as Belgium separated from Holland, it suffered a significant decline. Ask the Slovaks how they are getting on now they are separated from the Czechs

Don't know much about Belgium - perhaps you could provide some sources. Slovakia did not separate from the Czechs. The Czechoslovak state dissolved, creating the two successor states. Slovakia was always economically weaker.

By far the greatest number of Scots will not vote for independence, and Salmond knows it

So, you can see into the future AS knows the SNP have a struggle ahead. The polls are showing 30%-40% so, not far behind. There is everything to play for.

which is why neither he nor Cameron want the English to have say because they'd be embarrassed by a big English 'YES' and a piddly Scottish 'no'!

It is for the Scots to decide. How do you know what the majority of English people want?

Go and blow your kilt elsewhere!

How do you blow a kilt? Just like you, I can take part in any thread. What right have you to tell me otherwise?