The Media Creation of 'Devo-Max'

[shagpile]

I agree, and it's a disgrace. There's no logical reason why the Barnett formula can't be scrapped in Scotland, the Scottish grant being tied at the same level as England, and if the Scots want more money to spend, they can use their tax-levying powers.

What you propose is a disunited kingdom..... Make a case, the end result would be the same.

[morayloon]

More huffing and puffing! The clear majority of Scots will vote to remain within the union and continue to be subsidised

The polls maybe showing a majority in favour of remaining in the Union, but the gap is closing. Please tell me how Scotland is subsidised!

Scotland simply is not viable as a separate state.

There are numerous countries, smaller than Scotland doing very well. Please tell me why Scotland would be any different

Quite, and as much as I don't want to see an end to the union, if it does happen I'm sure I will get an imense sense of 'told you so' when President Salmond has to go cap in hand to the EU (This is after Scotland is forced to adopt the €uro, obviously)

It is SNP policy that Scotland joins the EU. As for the Euro, a country has to be in ERMII for 2 years before being accepted into the Euro. Anyway, as a successor state, Scotland will inherit the UK opt out.

because the £33 billion a year he currently gets from the English tax payer has suddenly dried up

£49 billion taken in taxation in Scotland, do the arithmetic

publicly he is going for independence, privatley he is banking on devo-max

Publicly AND Privately he is for Independence

And why not after all, thanks to England five million Jocks are doing very nicely

Do you think Scots don't pay taxes. £49 billion taken in, £33 billion given back.

[shagpile]

The polls maybe showing a majority in favour of remaining in the Union, but the gap is closing. Please tell me how Scotland is subsidised!
There are numerous countries, smaller than Scotland doing very well. Please tell me why Scotland would be any different
It is SNP policy that Scotland joins the EU. As for the Euro, a country has to be in ERMII for 2 years before being accepted into the Euro. Anyway, as a successor state, Scotland will inherit the UK opt out.
£49 billion taken in taxation in Scotland, do the arithmetic
Publicly AND Privately he is for Independence
Do you think Scots don't pay taxes. £49 billion taken in, £33 billion given back.

Even before north sea oil and gass, Scotland still contributed a surplus.

This is simple to prove as oil and gass are excluded from Scottish contributions to the Treasury.

[rjt]

It is riddiculous to say Scotland is not viable as a seperate state, I would rather they remain in the Union but that will be resolved in the fullness of time.

I am not going to get into the Barnett Formula etc, Acts of Parliament have been passed by both houses of parliament that ensure Scotland has money to spend on devolved issues, Scots people pay taxes just as English, Welsh and those living in Northern Ireland do, whether Scotland recieve too much back is a matter to be decided by the Execquer, it is right in these times of economic hardship that their budget suffers cuts like anyone elses.

The Scottish Executive has decided that certain differences should exist between Scotland and England as regards social policy, that is how they have chosen to spend that money.

This has created a feeling of unfairness and devolution itself has created a democratic deficit. There are really more important questions of democracy to consider here rather than us looking over the border at Scotland and seeing it as teeming with ill intentioned men in kilts knicking all our English money.

As someone who is proud to be English and British and a Unionist I feel there should be a stronger movement for an English Parlaiment which would reduce some of the tensions.

For Scotland of course there are questions of national identity, important ones at that but there is also matters of democracy to consider, who governs, in whose intrest, and what is the strongest position for Scotland to be in to whiled its maximum influence.

Questions of the Euro, the pound, armys etc as pronounced on by the First Minister should be consided carefully as he seems to take a lot for granted but they may be questions for a later date.

It really is time for Scotland to decide.

[Mr Rob]

You are in agreement with your delinquent fantasy....... Dream on.... Little dreamer.

Why not try to explain what you mean, instead of resorting to insult?

Is it because you cannot?

[shagpile]

It is riddiculous to say Scotland is not viable as a seperate state

Agreed.

I would rather they remain in the Union but that will be resolved in the fullness of time.

Your wish, yet, I don't believe you have thought it through from a Scottish perspective. The changes brought about in Scotland are very definately within a budget which continues to be cut. Whilst expenditure in England continues to run over budget. Emengency bail-outs of the NHS and local authorities in England continue at pace. THERE ARE NO Barnett consequentials to this, so why flog that dead horse?

I am not going to get into the Barnett Formula

Just as well.

Acts of Parliament have been passed by both houses of parliament that ensure Scotland has money to spend on devolved issues, Scots people pay taxes just as English, Welsh and those living in Northern Ireland do, whether Scotland recieve too much back is a matter to be decided by the Execquer, it is right in these times of economic hardship that their budget suffers cuts like anyone elses.

But that presumption is false. The London budget remains 'uncut', and attracts much investment.

Scotland has NO SAY on how much revinue it receives. That is at the whim of Westminster.

All for cuts, and cuts for all...... except London.

The Scottish Executive has decided that certain differences should exist between Scotland and England as regards social policy, that is how they have chosen to spend that money.

Not quite, Scottish policy is decided by Holyrood, if it is different from Westminster, so be it.... THAT is devolution. You sound like Lord Foulkes (ie The SNP are doing it on purpose. Poor govenment; on purpose by unionists, by default, is his preference).

This has created a feeling of unfairness and devolution itself has created a democratic deficit.

Only a paranoid mind could conceive of that. Too long have English supremacists drowned the voice of the English nationalist. If the English nationalists could grow up and unite, they might find similar policies in a devolved England, but oh no, slag the porridge wogs, much easier.

There are really more important questions of democracy to consider here rather than us looking over the border at Scotland and seeing it as teeming with ill intentioned men in kilts knicking all our English money.

I agree with you, just put a little meat on the bones for you.

As someone who is proud to be English and British and a Unionist I feel there should be a stronger movement for an English Parlaiment which would reduce some of the tensions.

Don't want to shatter your dreamworld, but, you can't BE both. If you walk down the middle of the road, you will become an RTA statistic. Two pavements, unionism or civic nationalism, the choice, as ever is yours.

For Scotland of course there are questions of national identity, important ones at that but there is also matters of democracy to consider, who governs, in whose intrest, and what is the strongest position for Scotland to be in to whiled its maximum influence.

Scots have no problem with our identity. Holyrood should always govern in the Scottish interest. Just a quick look at the RTA casualties of the unionist lobby fodder if you need evidence will confirm that.

Questions of the Euro, the pound, armys etc as pronounced on by the First Minister should be consided carefully as he seems to take a lot for granted but they may be questions for a later date.

No. These are not fears for the Scots. Perhaps for the rUK when they have to confront these issues, like the rabid anti-jock rhetoric; as feasted upon by the likes of The Mail readers. What will the English people do when they stand before the EU Commission as the other successor state to the EU.... Will you demand what the Scots will have in terms of a referendum on EU membership, or will you bow to Westminster, who will tell you, nothing has changed..... No need for a referendum?

It really is time for Scotland to decide.

We know that, but, it's also time for ENGLAND to act, not REACT.

[shagpile]

Why not try to explain what you mean, instead of resorting to insult?

Is it because you cannot?

No, I can insult if you choose. IT IS YOU who misses the point. Scotland has been held back too long. We will not wait on English nationalism to get it's act together, just so the English can have their rightful voice in negotiation. A simple Act of Holyrood which recognises Westminster; Welsh and NI members included, as the default English Parliament will be enough to clear any International Treaty issues.

There are, I'm sure, precedents elsewhere.

[Richard of England]

@Morayloon

£49bn raised and £33bn given back? Have you taken into account servicing the state debt, pensions, contributions towards the running costs to the union, contributions to the EU etc etc?

And that's not including the bailouts of Scottish registered banks HBOS and RBS.

[Richard of England]

@Shagpile

I think you'll find there is a growing number of people in England who want the union over and done with. Percentage wise, I think there are more English than Scots who want an end.

It's a pity and a disgrace that England hasn't been given the chance to vote on its own independence.

[cassie]

The polls maybe showing a majority in favour of remaining in the Union, but the gap is closing. Please tell me how Scotland is subsidised!
There are numerous countries, smaller than Scotland doing very well. Please tell me why Scotland would be any different
It is SNP policy that Scotland joins the EU. As for the Euro, a country has to be in ERMII for 2 years before being accepted into the Euro. Anyway, as a successor state, Scotland will inherit the UK opt out.
£49 billion taken in taxation in Scotland, do the arithmetic
Publicly AND Privately he is for Independence
Do you think Scots don't pay taxes. £49 billion taken in, £33 billion given back.

To assert that a nation of 5 million is the equivalent of another of 52 million is absurd!

When you go [which you won't], please return our Defence and other public resources . . . Nuclear subs, Army manpower, banks, and other public offices [pensions, tax collections etc] ~ and Tesco, Sainsbury etc had better re-organise and re-locate their admin from Scotland to England or they'll suffer.

When the territory we now know as Belgium separated from Holland, it suffered a significant decline. Ask the Slovaks how they are getting on now they are separated from the Czechs even though both are in the dreadful EU.

Increasing numbers of us in England wish you'd get on with it! By far the greatest number of Scots will not vote for independence, and Salmond knows it, which is why neither he nor Cameron want the English to have say because they'd be embarrassed by a big English 'YES' and a piddly Scottish 'no'!

Go and blow your kilt elsewhere!