Red ZedOriginally Posted by Red Zed
All the three major parties of the Lib/Lab/Con believe in totally unrestricted immigration into Britain from all of the 500 million EU citizens.
The average rate of settlement for the last 7 years is 575,000 new migrants a year.
This is more than one a minute day and night since 2004.
These figures are got from the governments Office for National Stastics.
The figures are shocking but 100% true.
they are migrnt workers being expoited by the capitalist system. instead of smashing the system you choose to persecutre the victims. I see your party has moved more to the right. as i said you should get some votes from the BNP.
Red Zed
The BNP is a very small party that is not doing very well in elections at the moment. It would be silly to set out policies that appeal only to that small section of the electorate. Even if what you said was true it would hardly be a remedy for success.
The SDP believes in socialism. This means that we put forward policies that are aimed at helping the working class. Policies that would reduce unemployment, and raise the living standards of the working class.
Policies such as a Buy British Campaign to support British manufacturing and create jobs. Controlling immigration so that there are more jobs and houses for the people already living here. Building more council house for rent.
Sorry to join in this discussion half way through, but Red Zed: I have never really understood why so many socialists view immigration controls as dividing the working class by setting them against one another. Workers already do compete in the work place and in the past have done reasonably well when not having to compete with almost unlimited immigrant labour. I understand most socialists want to go beyond wages and capital and the state. But I do not understand why politicians who work within this system are seen as especially leading the working class away from international solidarity if they propose any sort of local or national affiliation, as Lord Glasman points out. Capitalism can deliver relative prosperity in one place but misery in another. There may even be a connectedness between those things sometimes. But I cannot agree that immigration controls amount to persecution. It is one of the things which the state has traditionally regulated and opposing it because you oppose the capitalist state makes about as much sense as opposing all criminal law as persecution. Britain has the capacity to be wealthy and should not feel it should unilaterally get rid of passports. British workers should not feel guilty for what little they have and have to share it with the entire world. It is like saying that by having some economic and social separation from neighbours you cease to have any fellow feeling for them.
SDP sorry to see you leave UKIP. Good luck in the SDP. I share much with your views. It is a pity that David Owen saw leaving the EU as an old fashioned policy along with everything else that went with Old Labour. There is little or nothing progressive about the EU. I am glad it has changed that policy now.
Tom Collier
Also, Red Zed: Migrant workers to the UK maybe expoited, as you say, but victims? Is it not you who is trying to divide the population here? Ditto with your comments about the the SDP gaining votes from the BNP. Their policies, leadership and core supporters maybe racist (the BNP that is!) but many of their voters are people whose overtime has gone to Polish migrants being paid below the minimum wage, for example. Others are drawn to the negative publicitiy that the main parties give them. Refusing to share a platform for example, can be interpreted as fear of the BNP by the main parties. When the main parties are unpopular, this can backfire on them.
Marx would say that you should not separate political freedom from economics, but that is what many do when they argue that immigrants should be free to come here to be exploited and, be part of the exploitation of others, who have to compete with them.
Many of the old left's arguments for immigration are bound up with exploitation themselves. Eg "we need immigration to support the NHS". This argument ignores why the NHS is dependent on low-paid migrant labour. I tend to think this attachment to immigration and view of migrants as victims is particularly strong in the British left. It is partly connected to the legacy of empire and guilt. But the far right and left in this country fetishise (if that is the right word) the subject of immigration.
Tom Collier
Tom Collier
I was a UKIP parliamentary candidate in 2005 and 2010. I was disappointed to discover that endless hard work does not seem to increase the UKIP vote very much. I ended up with 3.5% in 2010 which was the national average vote for UKIP.
The strange thing is that almost everyone agrees with UKIP policies. From comments that I got while out working for UKIP I thought I was doing well. But come the General Election of 2010, I flopped.
Tom Collier
Even Nigel Farage got beaten by an independent in the General Election 2010. It is a mystery to me why a party with such popular policies cannot win elections.
I believe that UKIP is the largest party, never to have got and elected MP.
There must be a reason for this but I dont have the answer.
Tom Collier
I am now helping with the Social Democratic Party (SDP). And to some extent I have made my job even harder than before, because the SDP does not have product recognition. UKIP have substantial product recognition and can count on about 3% of the votes almost anywhere.
But if you believe in a cause you must keep trying even when the going gets tough. It is my dream that one day an Anti-EU Partiot will be elected to the British parliament.
The difference with the SDP is that they are left of centre. The SDP has a name that means something without explanation. The term social democrat has a meaning beyond ordinary party politics. The SDP is not linked to racism or communism.
Will a move to the left, and a change of party name help me win more votes long term ?
Tom Collier
UKIP do very well in European Elections, and so I must praise them for their succes in EU elections. But when it comes to council and Westminster parliamentary elections they have hit a brick wall.
The BNP seem to have hit an even bigger brick wall.
The English Democrats have good policies, but have also hit the same brick wall.
Respect are quite exciting in many ways, but Respect are not anti-EU, so they are no good too me.
Tom Collier
So that leaves us with the Social Democratic Party (SDP). The SDP are the smallest of the anti-EU parties. And the problem with the SDP is that they do not have product recognition. The average man in the street has never heard of the SDP.
But by concentrating their efforts into a small patch long term, the SDP have had some success and have got elected councillors in Bridlington and South Wales.
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