Islamic Exremists and MI5 - the link

[Cruthin]

It’s quite funny you accuse of lying, whatever I said wrong I admitted I made a mistake. But what I did say wrong wasn’t a far stretch from the claims I had made, your nit picking on minor details to discredit and ignore the other points I’ve made.

You told a lie then made another lie, regards that 98% of rapes are 'Non-Muslim', when you have absolutely no evidence this is the case, you only discredit yourself, I don't need to do that.

You asked me to show you the hadith or links to the claims, but at the same time acknowledge that you’re aware of existence of other contradictory hadith’s regarding her age…so why do you need me to post you a link?

You're the Muslim not me, as I said anything that is on the net, seems to be opinion rather than evidence to dispute a very young age.

Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage

here’s the link, it talks about the various and contradictory hadith regarding Aisha’s age, and even then the conclusion the author draws are still not entirely accurate and can’t be taken as factual.

All i did was google 'aisha's real age' and not click the FFI forum link, then you have furhter evidence regarding her age. How many other people did the same thing?

Don't see any late twenties you claimed, telling porkies again?... Again the translations that mention age seem to Aishas and that seems to be the youngest claim.

I’m not the one implicating a race to a crime, so how can I show you evidence? You’re the one that says muslim grooming gangs are a problem so show me how many rapes these gangs have been responsible for. Instead of telling me repeatedly OF the problem, show me the problem.

Are you saying there is no problem with "Muslim grooming gangs"?... Rochdale, Blackpool, Keighley, Telford, Derby etc among others, authorities just making this up, everyone's lying, yadda yadda yadda!! You're in denial, members of your own community, can see the problem, why can't you. Gang culture does not excuse, targetting young girls because they think they are unclean and beneath them.

Asian sex gangs: 'Culture of silence' allows grooming of white girls for fear of being racist | Mail Online

BBC News - Is sex abuse grooming a growing problem in the UK?

BBC News - Five Rotherham men jailed for child sex offences

I showed you the total annual rapes in the UK for you to corss reference your evidence/claims and to put it into perspective, with how hard you guys have been blasting muslim grooming gangs you should be aware of how many rapes they’re responsible for, Take this figure as a % from the total annual number (ie 13,500 which I have provided) and you have your %age figure for the extent of the muslim rape gang problem. Then you could see my 98% ESTIMATE wasn’t far off.

That's not what you said though, you first claimed that 98% of rapes were carried out by whites, which was a lie and then you claimed after being proven what a liar you are that it was 98% 'Non-Muslim', again no evidence to back it up. The blasting of Muslim gangs is because they target 'White' girls because they see them unclean and beneath them, that is racist, it doesn't matter what percentage this is of rapes (we only know about the ones that have been caught so far anyway), these grooming gangs are a problem and are almost all "Pakistani Muslim ethnicity", it is also a problem that that authorities feel they can't talk about it because of the preposterous claims that they would be racist to comment.

So show me, give me a number, your obviously know more about it then me. You made the claim so why are you asking me for evidence to disprove it when you havent even provided evidence to support your argument in the first place?

I can't give you a number, never claimed I could, you have and made assumptions, with absolutely no proof with the 98% figure, you have lied and been caught out.

How many rapes by muslims?


As I mentioned earlier I have an extremely high ranking police officer friend, who is English, and he also tells me sexual related crimes is almost exclusively a white crime, especially pedo crimes. To re-iterate, this is what HE has said, not me, and HE is English, so I’m not being racist, or extreme….it’s not my opinion. And this guy is VERY senior, never mind the poxy officer you quoted.

I am very confident, that I would be in the majority thinking, that this is just another episode of your 'Walter Mitty', Story telling.

In my opinion gang culture is the problem for gang crimes, this includes, drugs, robbery, kidnapping, extortions, laundering money, and pimping amongst many others.

I don’t live in the country side, I’ve always lived in city’s and come from the not so glamerous areas. So I’ve had exposure to the not so glamerous life. I’ve seen first-hand the impact of hip hop music on youths of ALL colours, white, black, Asian, including Indian, Chinese, and p*aki. From the early 90’s this change has taken place, and it has only got worse, nobody is addressing this problem, the media only glamorizes it.

I've lived in a city all my life, so I know exactly about it, and you can add in the "Sectarian conflict and troubles", in with that as well.

Deep down you all know this is the problem rather than Islam with regards to gang culture, but you would never address it, because your too stubborn to acknowledge when you’re wrong, and hate Islam too much to ever give up the feeble arguments to blacken it.

It's obvious from this forum that, deep down you have no idea what we know.

Even if these gangs were responsible for 100% of the crime, clearly these guys are not practicing muslims, so whatever crimes they did, was not by the order of Islam. For you to continuously even mention a religion when speaking about these crimes shows how shallow your thinking is. Maybe these guys were racist, but it is NOT by the order of Islam to act in such a way. Insult them as much as you want, I will join you, but don’t implicate Islam to their crimes – because it’s not Islam related.

Now we're getting somewhere "Maybe these guys were racist", I wouldn't be one to say it's something you are taught, the problem basically being these people think that 'Non-Muslim' girls are unclean, that's why many people will try to link it to Islam.

I can tell you gang culture and the need to be a ‘thug; or a ‘gangsta’ has taken over the p*ki community like an epidemic since 91/92. The role model who all the youths look up to is a millionaire heroine/crack dealer who became kingpin by having all his rivals killed. He bullies all the local business’ to launder his money, or they’re threatened with death. This is who everyone wants to be like. He owns villas in spains, mansions in p*akistan which make Buckingham palace look like a terraced house…sorry got too used to * after p.


Even though back home has a reputation for being lawless, the religious nuts would have had this guy shut down and killed – religious nuts like this guy…..who knew he was putting his life at risk by challenging mr kingpin.


Birmingham Mail - News - CrimeFiles - Unsolved crimes - Unsolved: New dad shot dead as he worked out at his g ym

who was killed because he tried to bring an end to the drug dealing empire.

In the real world, I would rather my children look up to this guy, for risking his life by challenging cold blooded drug dealing murderers, than the drug dealer himself – which IS who all the youths look up to.

Ha, I’ve just noticed….

‘The previous assassination attempt was thought to be the culmination of a row between two factions in the city’s Central Mosque’



Where the hell did they that information from? This is how you know the media is full of faeces.


This is what I mean by differentiating facts and opinion.

Fact he was killed, fact 3 guys, bmw etc, fact he was shot at before, opinion ‘it is thought….’

Everyone knows why he was killed, because he literally beat the **** out of mr kingpin whenever he seen him (about a good 4-5 times) in an attempt to dissuade him from showing his face – even when kingpin came with 4-5 muscle men, they all got beat up by one man – the only way for them to salvage their reputation and trade was to have him killed. ALL the local drug dealers got the message from Azmat, stop dealing drugs, or get beat up – within 1-2 years half the drug dealers stopped dealing. Maybe its wrong to take law into your own hands, but with the problem our areas faced, drastic action was needed as police were powerless – we all know who the dealers are.


If you had seen this guy on the street you’d think he was about al qaeda, he was extreme, hes a fundamental, yes he had a beard, he prayed 5 times, he dressed like an arab, had a green scarf and wot not, but he stood for what was rignt, he didn’t give two toss’s about the war’s, or about 9/11, he was concerned with cleaning up our areas, and raising the moral values within our communities. Since his death, nobody has had the balls to stand up to kingpin, and the police know everything about him, but can’t get the ‘evidence’ to lock him up. The drug industry has again boomed in his absence.

My not give a fuck meter went into overdrive there, I nearly fell asleep reading that, however seeing as I'm such a wonderful person, I skimmed over it.

So basically: Your area's drug dealers are a blight, the super-duper local Muslim representative, twatted the main guy on a number of occasions, leading to the Mullah guy being stiffed and the press lied about the reason for the killing, so now everything is even worse than before, is this the jist of it? This has got what to do with the topic? I really fail to see how that validates anything you say apart from how good Islam is and how bad Western culture is.

You also completely avoided the fact of your claim of 'ARE LINKED TO EXTREMISM’ which was derived from ‘POTENTIALLY LINKED TO FUNDAMENTALISM’. Yes I did read further into the article and picked up the claims, but still no specific examples were given.

I never avoided anything, links to Al Qaeada, is extremism, as stated in the article.

I’ve seen panorama documentaries claiming Islamic schools teach kids about ‘jews are pigs’, which is another pure b*llux claim, same way those claims in that article hold no water, until I see the evidence he gathered in detail I would not believe they are 'extreme'. Simply making statement about ‘preaching extreme views’ – I’m sorry but this isn’t proof. That article is massively flawed -there is no evidence presented, only claims and opinions. Im not so shallow to fall to such a lame article, based on nothing but opinions. The only fact in that article is how many schools they surveyed, which i have no reason to doubt.

So, you believe the guy that done the inspecting is lying?... What possible reason would that be for?... If he lied, why haven't these schools prosecuted, or contested his findings. Again surely these schools should sue Panarama, it would be the sensible thing to do. What about Newsnight, was it all about opinions?

UK Islamic School - YouTube

– because I know, again first hand, what these types of schools teach, and 99.9999% has to do with the spiritual side of Islam

So you know that, regards all Islamic schools, even though the evidence is there to see.

It is always the main focus, keeping your daily prayers, learning more surah’s, before 9/11 the big issues surrounding Islam were where should your hands be when you pray, why do people raise their index finger when reaching a certain part of the prayer, why do some people kiss their hands when muhammed name is said? Why do people worship and ask favours of the dead…? Should your ramadhan prayers be 8 rakaahs or 20, why do people pray 8 rakkahs in the mosque that has chosen to do 20? Who robbed my shoes?
Give charity, keep ur fasts etc etc.

That doesn't really matter, hatred and extremism can still be taught.

This is what Islamic schools are about. A Quraanic verse about people disrespecting the sabaath and likening them to apes/pigs, somehow became Islam insults and is intolerant of jews (stated in your article also), and this opinion, completely fabricated and which formed part of the basis of ‘extreme views’, was subject to numerous documentaries, which were televised on national TV. Even our politicians were referring to this verse and saying it says ALL jew’s are like pigs. I mean how hard is to read simple statements….

For this reason, the claims about those schools insult jews and ‘extreme views’, I cannot take as proof until I see what was said, instead of the authors interpretation of what ‘extreme’ is, I want to see what was said that is extreme? If anyone codoned the 7/7 or 9/11 this is what i class as extreme, telling kids quraanic stories is not extreme, telling kids not to drink and do drugs is not extreme, what is 'extreme' is different here than it is there, so by the author simply using the words fundamentalist, links it to extremism - and you fell into that trap like a lemming.[/QUOTE]

Well, no doubt you will blame it on being put out of context, what you can't do is say that about the Channel 4 programme 'Lessons in Hate and Violence', this disgusted many mainstream 'Muslims', it's funny a guy such as you, who by your own admittance doesn't even practice his religion, gets defensive of extremists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15w3npJsbG8

The people at the time of moses, chose to go fishing instead of praying on the day of sabaath when god ordered them not to, these disrespectful people are like apes and pigs.

The verse clearly insults the people who disrespected the jewish religion, and not insult jews as they claim.

Clutching at straws again, all you do is "deflect and deny", if Jews are teaching such things in schools, they should be highlighted, maybe you have some information they are?

Why do you find my example of cameron snortiing coke disturbing, its not as disturbing as if he was f*cking a 6yr old.....which is what you beleive of a past leader. Which would me met with a bigger reaction and opposition is the point im making here?

Disturbing?... I don't think so, politicians are morons and I'm sure would be partial to some 'Class A' narcotics, I just think you're what we say in Northern Ireland/Scotland as"full of wind and pish."

[Plutonium]

For obvious reasons i won’t mention the country they travelled to as to not implicate him, i would basically be telling you his name by saying this….i could be suspicious of you why would you want to know the country? Narrow it down without being too direct?

For "obvious" reasons? Please can you explain how mentioning the country they travelled to, reveals this person's name?

[alemcodon]

For "obvious" reasons? Please can you explain how mentioning the country they travelled to, reveals this person's name?

Because MI5 agents are in limited supply, and not all of them go to holiday to each and every other country, thus by mentioning the country, I could possibly implicate him, as we all know how hard the government watches the internet.

If 2 agents went to australia last year out of 1000, and I said he went Australia, and an MI5 dude was reading this, how hard would it be for him to work out who I’m talking about.

For an MI5 operative to even mention he is an MI5 operative, is almost signing a death warrant.

You told a lie then made another lie, regards that 98% of rapes are 'Non-Muslim', when you have absolutely no evidence this is the case, you only discredit yourself, I don't need to do that.

You're the Muslim not me, as I said anything that is on the net, seems to be opinion rather than evidence to dispute a very young age.

Don't see any late twenties you claimed, telling porkies again?... Again the translations that mention age seem to Aishas and that seems to be the youngest claim.

Are you saying there is no problem with "Muslim grooming gangs"?... Rochdale, Blackpool, Keighley, Telford, Derby etc among others, authorities just making this up, everyone's lying, yadda yadda yadda!! You're in denial, members of your own community, can see the problem, why can't you. Gang culture does not excuse, targetting young girls because they think they are unclean and beneath them.

Asian sex gangs: 'Culture of silence' allows grooming of white girls for fear of being racist | Mail Online

BBC News - Is sex abuse grooming a growing problem in the UK?

BBC News - Five Rotherham men jailed for child sex offences

That's not what you said though, you first claimed that 98% of rapes were carried out by whites, which was a lie and then you claimed after being proven what a liar you are that it was 98% 'Non-Muslim', again no evidence to back it up. The blasting of Muslim gangs is because they target 'White' girls because they see them unclean and beneath them, that is racist, it doesn't matter what percentage this is of rapes (we only know about the ones that have been caught so far anyway), these grooming gangs are a problem and are almost all "Pakistani Muslim ethnicity", it is also a problem that that authorities feel they can't talk about it because of the preposterous claims that they would be racist to comment.

I can't give you a number, never claimed I could, you have and made assumptions, with absolutely no proof with the 98% figure, you have lied and been caught out.

I am very confident, that I would be in the majority thinking, that this is just another episode of your 'Walter Mitty', Story telling.

I've lived in a city all my life, so I know exactly about it, and you can add in the "Sectarian conflict and troubles", in with that as well.


It's obvious from this forum that, deep down you have no idea what we know.

Now we're getting somewhere "Maybe these guys were racist", I wouldn't be one to say it's something you are taught, the problem basically being these people think that 'Non-Muslim' girls are unclean, that's why many people will try to link it to Islam.

My not give a fuck meter went into overdrive there, I nearly fell asleep reading that, however seeing as I'm such a wonderful person, I skimmed over it.

So basically: Your area's drug dealers are a blight, the super-duper local Muslim representative, twatted the main guy on a number of occasions, leading to the Mullah guy being stiffed and the press lied about the reason for the killing, so now everything is even worse than before, is this the jist of it? This has got what to do with the topic? I really fail to see how that validates anything you say apart from how good Islam is and how bad Western culture is.

I never avoided anything, links to Al Qaeada, is extremism, as stated in the article.

So, you believe the guy that done the inspecting is lying?... What possible reason would that be for?... If he lied, why haven't these schools prosecuted, or contested his findings. Again surely these schools should sue Panarama, it would be the sensible thing to do. What about Newsnight, was it all about opinions?

UK Islamic School - YouTube

So you know that, regards all Islamic schools, even though the evidence is there to see.

That doesn't really matter, hatred and extremism can still be taught.

For this reason, the claims about those schools insult jews and ‘extreme views’, I cannot take as proof until I see what was said, instead of the authors interpretation of what ‘extreme’ is, I want to see what was said that is extreme? If anyone codoned the 7/7 or 9/11 this is what i class as extreme, telling kids quraanic stories is not extreme, telling kids not to drink and do drugs is not extreme, what is 'extreme' is different here than it is there, so by the author simply using the words fundamentalist, links it to extremism - and you fell into that trap like a lemming.

Well, no doubt you will blame it on being put out of context, what you can't do is say that about the Channel 4 programme 'Lessons in Hate and Violence', this disgusted many mainstream 'Muslims', it's funny a guy such as you, who by your own admittance doesn't even practice his religion, gets defensive of extremists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15w3npJsbG8


Clutching at straws again, all you do is "deflect and deny", if Jews are teaching such things in schools, they should be highlighted, maybe you have some information they are?


Disturbing?... I don't think so, politicians are morons and I'm sure would be partial to some 'Class A' narcotics, I just think you're what we say in Northern Ireland/Scotland as"full of wind and pish."[/QUOTE]

It’s obvious you’re in denial and holding onto whatever you have to support your childish statements.

Aisha’s Age – That particular author only dwelves on a SOME of the hadith regarding her age, basically making a point of the various contradictory sources.

There are more sources indicating she was older than the ONE which suggests she was younger – that point had been proven in that article regardless if he went through EVERY hadith, therefore the evidence of her being older is stronger and more numerous.

But do you still believe she was 6? Of course you do, cus you WANT to believe she was 6. See what I mean by holding on?

After mentioning it twice already you STILL DIDN’T notice the fault in your statement.

POTENTIALLY linked to fundamentalism.

Do you know what POTENTIALLY MEANS in this context. It means they could be, or not be, linked to fundamentalism. I’m not talking about the link between fundamentalism and extremism, im talking about the definition of POTENTIAL, which your article states, but you states they ARE linked to extremism.

You said 60% of Islamic schools are linked to extremism…..but your article said POTENTIALLY….which doesn’t mean their linked to extremism.

And regarding the grooming gangs, never mind what the media says, my mate was front page on the mail for being a drug dealing pimp, right after he got off the plane from the Falkland’s.

I’ve heard lots of statements, articles etc about grooming gangs being a problem, but none of them give numbers. YOU claim muslim rape gangs are a problem, without providing ANY stats, so give me some stats instead of posting baseless articles full of opinions.

I acknowledge these things happened, but suggesting muslim grooming gangs are a major problem is stupid.

As a matter of fact I did try to source data on rapes, murders and ethnicity from certain government departments (I’m sure you did the same), namely the same department which states 30% of London crime is attributed to ethnic minorities WITHOUT mentioning 30% of the London population IS ethnic minorities. This department passed on their FINDINGS to the press, and it was well reported across every major media outlet.

Funnily enough they were unable to give me the stats which I had asked for stating ‘ we don’t hold that type of data’…when clearly they had data on ethnic makeup of prisoners/convicted criminals, and data on particular crimes, I work on databases so I know how easy a query this would have been.

The agendas vary person to person across government departments, who ever released that data and refused to give me data on ethnicities obviously has the same agenda as you – implicating minorities. I wander if this should amount to material which promotes racial hatred.

I clearly corrected myself about the 98%, what I meant to say was 98% were not muslims, AND I stated it was an estimated figure, since I have been unable to find data on rapes and ethnicities. This stat was based on the limited numbers which are available. Again I ask, since you grossly dispute my figure.

How many rapes have muslims been responsible for in the UK?

What % of UK rapes are by muslims?

You don’t have answers to these questions, and you cant find stats on these scenarios, so instead of acknowledging that muslim rapes are a tiny proportion of overall rapes, you accuse me of lying..when I acknowledged my error repeatedly. I still hold by my 98%, and I think that is still being harsh on muslims.

You’re obviously pretty confident on rapes by muslims a major problem, again I ask for the nth time, where’s the evidence? Why are you asking for evidence to disprove your claim, when you haven’t given any evidence to support your claim, a few articles about 4-5 guys isn’t evidence of an epidemic.

Just because jack straw made that statement gave the media the go ahead to implicate muslims as a driving force behind the abuse of young girls, the man whose brother molested a child….????

There probably are a few schools which preach dodgy stuff, but certainly not in the majority how your article stated.

Also judging from a good source that the MI5 has operatives (including imams) in almost every mosque in the UK, I wouldn’t be surprised most of these guys work for the MI5.

From my experience, in any mosques I have been to even before 9/11, people preaching questionable teachings have always been frowned upon, these attitudes haven’t changed.

[Cruthin]

It’s obvious you’re in denial and holding onto whatever you have to support your childish statements.

Aisha’s Age – That particular author only dwelves on a SOME of the hadith regarding her age, basically making a point of the various contradictory sources.

There are more sources indicating she was older than the ONE which suggests she was younger – that point had been proven in that article regardless if he went through EVERY hadith, therefore the evidence of her being older is stronger and more numerous.

But do you still believe she was 6? Of course you do, cus you WANT to believe she was 6. See what I mean by holding on?

After mentioning it twice already you STILL DIDN’T notice the fault in your statement.

I think there is a serious problem with her age, so you do the exact same thing that you accuse me of and believe what ever hadith that suits your agenda.

POTENTIALLY linked to fundamentalism.

Do you know what POTENTIALLY MEANS in this context. It means they could be, or not be, linked to fundamentalism. I’m not talking about the link between fundamentalism and extremism, im talking about the definition of POTENTIAL, which your article states, but you states they ARE linked to extremism.

You said 60% of Islamic schools are linked to extremism…..but your article said POTENTIALLY….which doesn’t mean their linked to extremism.

The person who carried out the study, collated evidence, regards extremism and give examples, again did you miss that part of the article? Again you skirt round the issue and try to deflect away problems that exist in Islamic schools. You won't take the Channel 4 programme as evidence, even though the presenter was 'Muslim', you won't take the BBC 'Newsnight' feature, even though written evidence was provided, and the representative not being able deny any of the accusations. It's funny none of this sort of carry on is practised in other types of 'Faith' schools.

And regarding the grooming gangs, never mind what the media says, my mate was front page on the mail for being a drug dealing pimp, right after he got off the plane from the Falkland’s.

I’ve heard lots of statements, articles etc about grooming gangs being a problem, but none of them give numbers. YOU claim muslim rape gangs are a problem, without providing ANY stats, so give me some stats instead of posting baseless articles full of opinions.

I acknowledge these things happened, but suggesting muslim grooming gangs are a major problem is stupid.

Posting baseless articles full of opinions?... The articles were from BBC and other media outlets, giving the names and crimes the perpetrators were being prosecuted for. Even Mohammed Shafiq of the Ramadhan Foundation, said "Let me be clear, there are Asian gangs operating in this country who are grooming white teenagers, these gangs think that white girls are less valuable than girls from their own community which is sick and abhorrent." Also Tazeen Ahmad (another Muslim) who researched and investigated the subject believes that the victim's numbers could be in the thousands. Of course if it was staring you in the face you would deflect and deny.

As a matter of fact I did try to source data on rapes, murders and ethnicity from certain government departments (I’m sure you did the same), namely the same department which states 30% of London crime is attributed to ethnic minorities WITHOUT mentioning 30% of the London population IS ethnic minorities. This department passed on their FINDINGS to the press, and it was well reported across every major media outlet.

This has what relevance to this thread or topic?

Funnily enough they were unable to give me the stats which I had asked for stating ‘ we don’t hold that type of data’…when clearly they had data on ethnic makeup of prisoners/convicted criminals, and data on particular crimes, I work on databases so I know how easy a query this would have been.

The agendas vary person to person across government departments, who ever released that data and refused to give me data on ethnicities obviously has the same agenda as you – implicating minorities. I wander if this should amount to material which promotes racial hatred.

No you absolute moron, they don't produce the figures, because they don't want to give oxygen to the likes of the BNP and other 'Far Right' groups.

I clearly corrected myself about the 98%, what I meant to say was 98% were not muslims, AND I stated it was an estimated figure, since I have been unable to find data on rapes and ethnicities. This stat was based on the limited numbers which are available. Again I ask, since you grossly dispute my figure.

No you didn't, you lied then made another outlandish statement without having any source to back up your theory that 98% of all rapes where 'Non-Muslim', there was no data to calculate even an estimated figure, what you have done was to divide two totally unrelated figures to get a number which has no relevance or can be put forward as an estimate.

How many rapes have muslims been responsible for in the UK?

What % of UK rapes are by muslims?

You don’t have answers to these questions, and you cant find stats on these scenarios, so instead of acknowledging that muslim rapes are a tiny proportion of overall rapes, you accuse me of lying..when I acknowledged my error repeatedly. I still hold by my 98%, and I think that is still being harsh on muslims.

How can I acknowledge that "muslim rapes are a tiny proportion of overall rapes", when you have no figures to back up this theory? You offer your opinion, nothing else, and quite frankly with your history, it means nothing, you're a compulsive liar, who is consistent in defending the indefensible, and talking paragraphs of drivel which have no relevance to the subject being discussed, you also can't provide any sources to the ridiculous statements you spurt.

You’re obviously pretty confident on rapes by muslims a major problem, again I ask for the nth time, where’s the evidence? Why are you asking for evidence to disprove your claim, when you haven’t given any evidence to support your claim, a few articles about 4-5 guys isn’t evidence of an epidemic.

Oh FFS!, more moronic nonsense, where did I say anything about Muslim rape being a major problem? I didn't you idiot, I said there is a problem with "Pakistani muslim grooming gangs" who target underage white girls, you're the one throwing around figures with no evidence. If you don't think that 17 cases of grooming by these gangs, isn't a problem, then that says more about you than anyone else on the subject. The authorities think it's "the tip of the iceberg", and Muslims have recognised there's a problem.

Just because jack straw made that statement gave the media the go ahead to implicate muslims as a driving force behind the abuse of young girls, the man whose brother molested a child….????

So, just because a relative was convicted of sexual assault, that means he can't comment on what's happening in his constituency? If you're trying to say hes making these comments because he has an 'Anti-Muslim' agenda, which is frankly ludicrous, he's member of the 'Multi-Cultural' New Liebore, not the 'BNP' or the 'National Front'.

There probably are a few schools which preach dodgy stuff, but certainly not in the majority how your article stated.

Probably, potentially, maybe?... Did you actually watch any of the videos I put up?... So why should we take your word for it that it's not the majority and only a relative few?

Also judging from a good source that the MI5 has operatives (including imams) in almost every mosque in the UK, I wouldn’t be surprised most of these guys work for the MI5.

So this would be MI5 trying to make 'Muslims' look bad, rather than just 'Islamic Extremists', preaching their hate. Islam is never to blame, it always someone else's fault.

From my experience, in any mosques I have been to even before 9/11, people preaching questionable teachings have always been frowned upon, these attitudes haven’t changed.

Well lets hope that it's nipped in the bud full stop, as it does you no favours, as this isn't happening with any other faith in the UK.

[alemcodon]

I think there is a serious problem with her age, so you do the exact same thing that you accuse me of and believe what ever hadith that suits your agenda.

The person who carried out the study, collated evidence, regards extremism and give examples, again did you miss that part of the article? Again you skirt round the issue and try to deflect away problems that exist in Islamic schools. You won't take the Channel 4 programme as evidence, even though the presenter was 'Muslim', you won't take the BBC 'Newsnight' feature, even though written evidence was provided, and the representative not being able deny any of the accusations. It's funny none of this sort of carry on is practised in other types of 'Faith' schools.

Posting baseless articles full of opinions?... The articles were from BBC and other media outlets, giving the names and crimes the perpetrators were being prosecuted for. Even Mohammed Shafiq of the Ramadhan Foundation, said "Let me be clear, there are Asian gangs operating in this country who are grooming white teenagers, these gangs think that white girls are less valuable than girls from their own community which is sick and abhorrent." Also Tazeen Ahmad (another Muslim) who researched and investigated the subject believes that the victim's numbers could be in the thousands. Of course if it was staring you in the face you would deflect and deny.

This has what relevance to this thread or topic?

No you absolute moron, they don't produce the figures, because they don't want to give oxygen to the likes of the BNP and other 'Far Right' groups.

No you didn't, you lied then made another outlandish statement without having any source to back up your theory that 98% of all rapes where 'Non-Muslim', there was no data to calculate even an estimated figure, what you have done was to divide two totally unrelated figures to get a number which has no relevance or can be put forward as an estimate.

How can I acknowledge that "muslim rapes are a tiny proportion of overall rapes", when you have no figures to back up this theory? You offer your opinion, nothing else, and quite frankly with your history, it means nothing, you're a compulsive liar, who is consistent in defending the indefensible, and talking paragraphs of drivel which have no relevance to the subject being discussed, you also can't provide any sources to the ridiculous statements you spurt.

Oh FFS!, more moronic nonsense, where did I say anything about Muslim rape being a major problem? I didn't you idiot, I said there is a problem with "Pakistani muslim grooming gangs" who target underage white girls, you're the one throwing around figures with no evidence. If you don't think that 17 cases of grooming by these gangs, isn't a problem, then that says more about you than anyone else on the subject. The authorities think it's "the tip of the iceberg", and Muslims have recognised there's a problem.

So, just because a relative was convicted of sexual assault, that means he can't comment on what's happening in his constituency? If you're trying to say hes making these comments because he has an 'Anti-Muslim' agenda, which is frankly ludicrous, he's member of the 'Multi-Cultural' New Liebore, not the 'BNP' or the 'National Front'.

Probably, potentially, maybe?... Did you actually watch any of the videos I put up?... So why should we take your word for it that it's not the majority and only a relative few?

So this would be MI5 trying to make 'Muslims' look bad, rather than just 'Islamic Extremists', preaching their hate. Islam is never to blame, it always someone else's fault.

Well lets hope that it's nipped in the bud full stop, as it does you no favours, as this isn't happening with any other faith in the UK.

After reading your stuff I begin to understand how easy people are manipulated.

With regards to muslims, I am muslim, have been all my life so I know how they think. Generally the religious community is frowning upon some of the non religious community, because they drink, smoke, party, and having sexual relationships outside marriage. – basically not following the religion.

They are also desperately trying to impress the non muslim community, and part of that includes jumping on the band wagon when criticisms are thrown towards muslims, by not disputing and acknowledging/engaging in problems identified.

As I said there is a problem with hip hop gangsta culture in the community, so if you say the world ‘GANG; to these people (mr wotshisface from ramadhan fraud foundation) , they will say, yes young muslims have a gang culture problem. But a gang culture doesnt ONLY entail grooming of underage girls.


Asians dating English or ANY non muslims is frowned upon within the asian/muslim community as much as yours, therefore if the national papers make an issue of asian guys and English girls, these guys are automatically ‘yeah yeah, something needs to be done’.


Effectively these guys have just become yes men – because of the bad publicity, this is their way of ‘integrating’and building ‘bridges’.

I did read that article, very carefully, its full of cr*p, to say 60+% of muslim schools are linked to extremism is absurd. He has given EXAMPLES of what constitutes a link to fundamentalism, but I have yet to see evidence for each and every school he says is linked. Rather I think the author could make the link between 1 or 2, but gives figures implicating more WIHOUT proper evidence.


Him giving an example of what extreme is, doesn’t necessarily constitute evidence against EVERY school he accuses.


That’s why his own publisher was not standing behind those figures….did you forget to read part of the article?


If he had proper evidence for the claims, the published wouldn’t refuse to stand by the figure, obviously they know the figures are fantasy, and do not wish to get themselves into trouble by standing by false accusations.

As I’ve said before, I’ve acknowledged there are extremists, but you guys (and the media) blow the problem way out of proportion – and there’s a reason for that, whether you admit it or not.



Finally you presented some numbers…….
So between 1997, and 2011 there have been 50 muslims convicted of crimes including


“rape, child abduction, indecent assault and sex with a child.” – and because the article only talks about RECORDED crime…..in the same time at an average of...

11,000 REPORTED rapes annually X 13 years = 143000 women reported rape in the same time across the UK.


If you were to include total reports for all the crimes, this figure would be much higher. But for now let’s just count the rapes - 143,000.


Between those 143,000 rapes let’s say there’s 50,000 rapists.

50/50,000 = 0.1% of rapists are muslims


Sexual crimes are not well reported in general its estimated 50,000+ women are raped every year, but only 11-13000 are reported I have been generous to your argument with the calculations by not counting other sex crimes in the figure, taking the lowest figure for rapes, counting 13 years instead of 14, AND attributing 3 rapes per rapist. Theres no reason victims from muslim rapists are less likely to be reported than sex crimes in general, unless you can enlighten me further?


Even if you took a tenth of the total rapists so 5000 rapists, it would still only be 1% of rapists are muslims.


And by doing so your basically saying 100 rapes per rapist, at nearly 10 a year – then we have a serious serial rapist problem - this is not an impossible scenario. How many rapists would you estimate there are in the UK?


So my ESTIMATE of 98% of rapists are non muslim, is still very generous.

You can do this sum another, by counting women raped by muslims.

Let’s say those 50 muslims raped 500 girls (10 each) out of 143000 women raped = 0.3% of rapes by muslims.

Whichever way you work it out, its way below the relative muslim population.


You wanna work it out another way, let’s go by conviction rates…



On average 6% of reported rapes result in convictions = 8500 rapists convicted (6% X 143,000)


50/8500 = 0.5% of convicted rapists are muslims (remember my rape count was as low as possible in reality this figure would be much lower) I also didn’t take into account between 1997 and 2003, the conviction rates would have been around 10-13% not 6%.


There s a much bigger and much more serious issue here which is being completely ignored and clouded….

- Rapes increase nearly 10% every year over the last decade.

- Conviction rates are consistently falling every year from 13% to 6% in the last decade.

- The number of girls on the streets is increasing as poverty levels increase. Drug abuse and alcohol abuse is rising significantly amongst youngsters.

How many times did those stories make the front page?

if you cant see the agenda of the media here....your blind.


Statistics - Campaign to End Rape

Note in 2001 the estimated sexual assaults were 190,000…im sure you don’t want me to go through calculating estimated figures of non convicted crimes, you would need to attribute more than 1900 cases annually of sexual assault to muslims to get to 1%, 3800 for 2% - and even police estimates only attributed a few hundred assault cases to muslims (based on YOUR sources).


Now tell me how many people reading these articles would calculate and research these figures to put them into perspective.

The same as the recent articles attributing 30% of murders in the Met to non whites. This was reported by the police to the media as a ‘problem’ , yet they didn’t mention that 30% of the London population are from foreign backgrounds.


Numbers are meaningless unless their put into perspective, how many years you been talking about muslims gangs and how many times did you put these numbers into perspective? It proves how incapable you are of doing basic research. It also proves how gullable you are, and how easily manipulated you are. Did you even know the annual rape figure for the UK…?? Interesting to note your concentration span, it explains alot.


Another part of the problem is you guys (ie you and francis and fellow cronies) do not live in the real world, you have to read reports and articles telling you what’s happening, 90% of your opinions are based on things you’ve read and things you’ve been told, NOT things you’ve observed.


So tell me was my 98% estimate a far stretch? What would you put the figure at and how would you work it out? Ive done this research and posted links articles since it became an issue, my estimates are not based on nothing, I just couldn’t be arsked posting links to the various websites over and over - because by now I know, your opinions do not change.


Tomorrow you will be saying to someone else how Pakistani grooming gangs are an increasing problem, even though you know you cannot attribute more than 1% of sexual crimes to muslims.


Also I didn’t wanna go down this road but I don’t have much choice right now, even when I was in my early 20’s at uni, when I was in certain areas at work etc, girls aged 13/14 would approach me because they’d seen me smoking a spliff, ‘can we smoke with you?, can we cruise with you?’, id tell ‘em to ‘effin go home (contrary to popular belief), these were my customers daughters n stuff (I was a delivery boy). then they would try and persuade me they were 16+, even now I’m nearly 32 my GF’s neighbor who’s 17 has a crush on me, she’s already told my GF she wants to f*ck me, and not just her, another 16yr old friend of hers, AND a 19. I’m frikkin 30+ now – I cant stop these girls being attracted to me, don’t get confused I AM NOT attracted to any of them. My GF is 22, and a size 8, I’m happy. Im not super stud, these girls have just never been with as asian, they're curious.


Naturally everyone is curious, when I was 18-19 I wanted to have sex with white, asian, black, skinny, fat, short tall, every type of girl, if you can’t admit than as well, you’re lying. Women are the same , they get curious too.

Before muslim grooming gangts were revealed to the world, racists would always complain/ask why do so many english girls run off with asian men? i dont know why, but im sure these guys pioneered the grooming gang problem.

[Cruthin]

After reading your stuff I begin to understand how easy people are manipulated.

I'm not manipulated by anyone, you on the other hand.

With regards to muslims, I am muslim, have been all my life so I know how they think. Generally the religious community is frowning upon some of the non religious community, because they drink, smoke, party, and having sexual relationships outside marriage. – basically not following the religion.

And?

They are also desperately trying to impress the non muslim community, and part of that includes jumping on the band wagon when criticisms are thrown towards muslims, by not disputing and acknowledging/engaging in problems identified.

So the Ramadhan foundation is trying to impress us and fit in?... So we don't take on board what they say, an organisation who represents Muslims?... We should listen to people like you instead, why?

As I said there is a problem with hip hop gangsta culture in the community, so if you say the world ‘GANG; to these people (mr wotshisface from ramadhan fraud foundation) , they will say, yes young muslims have a gang culture problem. But a gang culture doesnt ONLY entail grooming of underage girls.

Yes, that's true, however other gangs don't seem to be involved in raping underage girls which is 'Paedophilia', and target them because they are 'White', which of course is racism.

Asians dating English or ANY non muslims is frowned upon within the asian/muslim community as much as yours, therefore if the national papers make an issue of asian guys and English girls, these guys are automatically ‘yeah yeah, something needs to be done’.

Oh we know that, but if we said that about mixed relationships, we would be labelled as 'Racist'. Something needs to be done as there are too many incidents of this sort of thing, maybe you think it should be ignored?... Any wonder the Police are terrified of being regarded as 'Racist', if you are the average 'Muslim'.

Effectively these guys have just become yes men – because of the bad publicity, this is their way of ‘integrating’and building ‘bridges’.

So these "Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs", are using 'Paedophilia' and 'Racism', to integrate and "build some bridges"?... I think the general population would rather they didn't integrate, if that's their idea of community cohesion.

I did read that article, very carefully, its full of cr*p, to say 60+% of muslim schools are linked to extremism is absurd. He has given EXAMPLES of what constitutes a link to fundamentalism, but I have yet to see evidence for each and every school he says is linked. Rather I think the author could make the link between 1 or 2, but gives figures implicating more WIHOUT proper evidence.

The article did say he did record evidence," MacEoin has been careful to back up his claims with evidence – in particular, screen captures of links to Islamic hate-mongers, including supporters of Al-Qaeda." The journalist from the article also made this point at the end, "I've seen many of the extremely damaging screen grabs on which MacEoin bases his claims", Why would they lie about this?

Did you even watch the 'Newnight' debate, I linked or the Channel 4 'Dispatches', investigation?... What's your excuse for the findings of the programmes?

Him giving an example of what extreme is, doesn’t necessarily constitute evidence against EVERY school he accuses.

This is what he said

"133 Muslim primary and secondary schools it surveyed, 82 (61.6 per cent) have connections or direct affiliations to fundamentalists. The 133 schools are in the private sector but supposedly subject to Ofsted inspection."


The Journalist only gave a few examples in the article, it wasn't the author of the report.

That’s why his own publisher was not standing behind those figures….did you forget to read part of the article?

No I didn't forget to read it, and again that's not the reason they gave. It was because of some of the material being 'Arabic', did you even read that bit?

"We want to concentrate on claims that are absolutely robust, rather than complicated material, some of it in Arabic, that might unjustly damage someone's reputation."

If he had proper evidence for the claims, the published wouldn’t refuse to stand by the figure, obviously they know the figures are fantasy, and do not wish to get themselves into trouble by standing by false accusations.

Again I direct you to the above statement, which gives the reasons of the evidence being complicated and some of it in Arabic.

As I’ve said before, I’ve acknowledged there are extremists, but you guys (and the media) blow the problem way out of proportion – and there’s a reason for that, whether you admit it or not.

I don't think we do, and you are a person who deflects and denies anything that is reported negatively about your community, it's funny the same problems don't exist in the Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist or Jewish communities.

Finally you presented some numbers…….
So between 1997, and 2011 there have been 50 muslims convicted of crimes including


“rape, child abduction, indecent assault and sex with a child.” –

No, there have been 50+ Muslims convicted of being gangs that indulge in 'Paedophilia', i.e. grooming of children. We don't know what ethnicity the rest of the rapes that happen in the UK.

and because the article only talks about RECORDED crime…..in the same time at an average of...

11,000 REPORTED rapes annually X 13 years = 143000 women reported rape in the same time across the UK.


If you were to include total reports for all the crimes, this figure would be much higher. But for now let’s just count the rapes - 143,000.


Between those 143,000 rapes let’s say there’s 50,000 rapists.

50/50,000 = 0.1% of rapists are muslims

I honestly do think you are thick, it doesn't matter what way you make the figures up, you can't claim what percentage of rapists are 'Muslim', as you don't have the data to back it up, you only know about the 50+ who have been convicted, and claiming that all other rapes are form 'Non-Muslims', is moronic. You're just making yourself look like an idiot.

Sexual crimes are not well reported in general its estimated 50,000+ women are raped every year, but only 11-13000 are reported I have been generous to your argument with the calculations by not counting other sex crimes in the figure, taking the lowest figure for rapes, counting 13 years instead of 14, AND attributing 3 rapes per rapist. Theres no reason victims from muslim rapists are less likely to be reported than sex crimes in general, unless you can enlighten me further?


Even if you took a tenth of the total rapists so 5000 rapists, it would still only be 1% of rapists are muslims.


And by doing so your basically saying 100 rapes per rapist, at nearly 10 a year – then we have a serious serial rapist problem - this is not an impossible scenario. How many rapists would you estimate there are in the UK?


So my ESTIMATE of 98% of rapists are non muslim, is still very generous.

How do you know what's generous, when you don't have the data to get a calculation? These figures mean absolutely nothing whatsoever, you don't know how many 'Muslim' rapists are. It just goes to show how naive your when you think that you can second guess what groups are responsible for rapes carried out in this country.

[QUOTE=alemcodon;1313982] You can do this sum another, by counting women raped by muslims.

Let’s say those 50 muslims raped 500 girls (10 each) out of 143000 women raped = 0.3% of rapes by muslims.

Whichever way you work it out, its way below the relative muslim population.


You wanna work it out another way, let’s go by conviction rates…



On average 6% of reported rapes result in convictions = 8500 rapists convicted (6% X 143,000)


50/8500 = 0.5% of convicted rapists are muslims (remember my rape count was as low as possible in reality this figure would be much lower) I also didn’t take into account between 1997 and 2003, the conviction rates would have been around 10-13% not 6%.[QUOTE=alemcodon;1313982]

Again these figures mean nothing, you are still going by that the 50+ members of the "Pakistani grooming gangs", are the only 'Muslims', that have been convicted of rape, you have no idea how many people from your community have been prosecuted, maybe if you had figures for other grooming gangs who target underage girls of a specific race, and made a comparison, you would have a point, so your wee maths lesson was a waste of , pretty much like most of you fantasy stories.

There s a much bigger and much more serious issue here which is being completely ignored and clouded….

- Rapes increase nearly 10% every year over the last decade.

- Conviction rates are consistently falling every year from 13% to 6% in the last decade.

- The number of girls on the streets is increasing as poverty levels increase. Drug abuse and alcohol abuse is rising significantly amongst youngsters.

How many times did those stories make the front page?

Yes there is a big issue, regards what you have mentioned, the media highlight it all the time, never heard of 'Broken Britain'?... If you're so concerned about it, start a thread about and give your views, instead of fannying around this forum acting the victim, also just because that is an issue, it should stop this topic being highlighted and discussed.

if you cant see the agenda of the media here....your blind.

Oh please tell?... I'll take a wild stab in the dark, it's an 'Anti Muslim' agenda?

Statistics - Campaign to End Rape

Note in 2001 the estimated sexual assaults were 190,000…im sure you don’t want me to go through calculating estimated figures of non convicted crimes, you would need to attribute more than 1900 cases annually of sexual assault to muslims to get to 1%, 3800 for 2% - and even police estimates only attributed a few hundred assault cases to muslims (based on YOUR sources).


Now tell me how many people reading these articles would calculate and research these figures to put them into perspective.

There are different types of sexual crimes, you have no idea who the perpetrators are for almost all of them, the figures we do have are for "Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs", which there is a problem with, as they target underage white girls, that's why it's being highlighted, if there are other groups doing this, maybe you could let us know?

The same as the recent articles attributing 30% of murders in the Met to non whites. This was reported by the police to the media as a ‘problem’ , yet they didn’t mention that 30% of the London population are from foreign backgrounds.

Haven't seen the articles, maybe you could put up some links?... Or are you telling Porkies, again?

Numbers are meaningless unless their put into perspective, how many years you been talking about muslims gangs and how many times did you put these numbers into perspective? It proves how incapable you are of doing basic research. It also proves how gullable you are, and how easily manipulated you are. Did you even know the annual rape figure for the UK…?? Interesting to note your concentration span, it explains alot.

Numbers are meaningless from you obviously, you try to justify you comments by claiming that 98% of rapes are by 'Non-Muslims', when you have no clue whatsoever of the ethnic make up of the perpetrators, you're also gullible to think that myself or anyone else is going believe your drivel. You're incapable of taking any form of criticism when your community is involved, you are manipulated by deniers and you are in no position to question anyone's "concentration span", when you consider your performances on this board.


[QUOTE=alemcodon;1313982Another part of the problem is you guys (ie you and francis and fellow cronies) do not live in the real world, you have to read reports and articles telling you what’s happening, [COLOR=#FF0000]90% of your opinions are based on things you’ve read and things you’ve been told, NOT things you’ve observed.[/COLOR]

Who are you to comment on people who "do not live in the real world"?... Considering this is coming from a compulsive liar and a fantasist, who is so arrogant he believes his own hype, while everyone else laughs at the attempts of justification of things that are indefensible. 90% of your opinions seem to based on your own bullshit

So tell me was my 98% estimate a far stretch? What would you put the figure at and how would you work it out? Ive done this research and posted links articles since it became an issue, my estimates are not based on nothing, I just couldn’t be arsked posting links to the various websites over and over - because by now I know, your opinions do not change.

You have claimed that 98% of rapes have been carried out by 'Non Muslims', we have no way of knowing that is the case, as you have not been able provide data to back up your claims, all you have given is your opinion, with a ludicrous and moronic idea that your calculations are to be believed. If you believe that all other perpetrators of rape apart from the 50+ involved in the grooming gangs, then you're delude idiot.

Tomorrow you will be saying to someone else how Pakistani grooming gangs are an increasing problem, even though you know you cannot attribute more than 1% of sexual crimes to muslims.

I will continue to think there is a problem if things continue the way they are, someone like yourself is not going to change my mind, as you are unable to back up any of your arguments.

Also I didn’t wanna go down this road but I don’t have much choice right now, even when I was in my early 20’s at uni, when I was in certain areas at work etc, girls aged 13/14 would approach me because they’d seen me smoking a spliff, ‘can we smoke with you?, can we cruise with you?’, id tell ‘em to ‘effin go home (contrary to popular belief), these were my customers daughters n stuff (I was a delivery boy). then they would try and persuade me they were 16+, even now I’m nearly 32 my GF’s neighbor who’s 17 has a crush on me, she’s already told my GF she wants to f*ck me, and not just her, another 16yr old friend of hers, AND a 19. I’m frikkin 30+ now – I cant stop these girls being attracted to me, don’t get confused I AM NOT attracted to any of them. My GF is 22, and a size 8, I’m happy. Im not super stud, these girls have just never been with as asian, they're curious.

So that excuses grooming gangs for raping children, stop trying to justify their actions, you're are just digging yourself a bigger hole.

Naturally everyone is curious, when I was 18-19 I wanted to have sex with white, asian, black, skinny, fat, short tall, every type of girl, if you can’t admit than as well, you’re lying. Women are the same , they get curious too.

Whats that got to do with Paedophilia?

Before muslim grooming gangts were revealed to the world, racists would always complain/ask why do so many english girls run off with asian men? i dont know why, but im sure these guys pioneered the grooming gang problem.

So white people are using these gangs as an excuse, for our women running off with Asian men?

[Plutonium]

Because MI5 agents are in limited supply, and not all of them go to holiday to each and every other country, thus by mentioning the country, I could possibly implicate him, as we all know how hard the government watches the internet.

If 2 agents went to australia last year out of 1000, and I said he went Australia, and an MI5 dude was reading this, how hard would it be for him to work out who I’m talking about.

For an MI5 operative to even mention he is an MI5 operative, is almost signing a death warrant.

And how many MI5 operatives are Muslim? How many bearded Muslim MI5 operatives went abroad on holiday last year (to any country) with some mates?

(I'm not counting family visits to places like Pakistan, India etc, which this clearly wasn't.)

If an MI5 dude reads this thread, and this story is true, how hard will it be for him to figure out who it's about?