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Thread: Cameron has done it! He’s used the veto

  1. #11
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    Veto, refuse to sign.. Just semantics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi View Post
    He didn't veto anything, he just refused to sign a piece of documentation.

  2. #12
    Trusted Member Baron von Lotsov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB100 View Post
    Veto, refuse to sign.. Just semantics.
    Exactly, it is rather disingenuous to say he didn't do anything. The Eurofascists are clucking like mad, and so there must have been something he did do. It was a proper handbagging!
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    Exactly, it is rather disingenuous to say he didn't do anything. The Eurofascists are clucking like mad, and so there must have been something he did do. It was a proper handbagging!
    Well said Baron

    A new treaty requires 27 countries to agree. An agreement by only 26 is not enforceble by the EU Court. There is no majority voting regards new treaties. Bulldog Cameron has used his veto.
    He is a national hero.
    Last edited by SDP; 10-12-2011 at 12:34 PM.

  4. #14
    Trusted Member Bevois's Avatar
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    All I know that there was a lot of calls from the other EU countries for the introduction of a tax on financial trading transactions and for tighter regulations of banks registered in the UK, so whilst Cameron has earned himself triple gold stars from the City of London, he only merits a single blue star from the ordinary UK citizen.

  5. #15
    Trusted Member Francis Overdere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    Only those who say he didn't do the right thing are spinning it. Clegg will be delighted!
    Well he was delighted at first. Then earlier this morning he was annoyed. Now he's just confused.
    "Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg says David Cameron's veto of EU treaty changes was "bad for Britain" and could leave it "isolated and marginalised".

    But he blamed French and German "intransigence" and pressure from Eurosceptic Conservatives for putting the PM in "a very difficult position".

    BBC News - Nick Clegg warns European veto 'bad for Britain'
    This is England and .....

    (Member of the Association of White Posters.)

  6. #16
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    All good for the PM then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Overdere View Post
    Well he was delighted at first. Then earlier this morning he was annoyed. Now he's just confused.
    "Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg says David Cameron's veto of EU treaty changes was "bad for Britain" and could leave it "isolated and marginalised".

    But he blamed French and German "intransigence" and pressure from Eurosceptic Conservatives for putting the PM in "a very difficult position".

    BBC News - Nick Clegg warns European veto 'bad for Britain'

  7. #17
    Trusted Member Little_Englander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDP View Post
    Well said Baron

    A new treaty requires 27 countries to agree. An agreement by only 26 is not enforceble by the EU Court. There is no majority voting regards new treaties. Bulldog Cameron has used his veto.
    He is a national hero.
    Cameron was probably avoiding the possibility of being forced to hold a referendum in the UK if all 27 agreed a new treaty. Having to hold a referendum seems to be Cameron's second worst Bete´ noire´, the first being having to hold referenda.

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  8. #18
    Trusted Member Baron von Lotsov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Englander View Post
    Cameron was probably avoiding the possibility of being forced to hold a referendum in the UK if all 27 agreed a new treaty. Having to hold a referendum seems to be Cameron's second worst Bete´ noire´, the first being having to hold referenda.

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    A vote for the tri-partite elected dictatorship, the LibLabCon, the self authorised troika, is a vote for the EU.


    I have always said a referendum is a bad idea. We have a parliamentary democracy, so the referendum will be the next election. This is the best system, and the reason it is the best is because holding referendums all the time has the unintended consequence that it puts the politicians in constant election mode. When they spend all their time campaigning then they don't have any time for doing the job they had been elected to do.

    Furthermore it becomes a kind of populist government, and that is an extremely bad thing. You saw the case of Emma West. The popular demand was that she should be shot. Now say anyone could call a referendum at any time with enough votes. We would have the worst laws you could possibly imagine. Take the case Sarah Payne and the subsequent law, known as Sarah’s law, if you want a real life example of how bad laws can be. It turns into a kind of mob rule, or to use another name for it, what you are talking of is Marxism, and this is where you have the People’s Republic of wherever. It was demonstrated that Marxism was particularly bad in the time of Stalin. Stalin rose to power much like Hitler did. These dictators us the basest emotions of the human psyche to rouse up the crowds and get a kind of fake democratic legitimacy.

    Now in the case of a referendum on EU matters it makes the job of the government a far more difficult one. The government knows it has to deliver or it won’t win the next election. It knows it has to deal with the EU and the EU is a serious threat. What we are involved with here is a complex diplomatic game of fast-moving chess. It is well above the minds of the dumbed down electorate. We have to play this game with the utmost stealth because when have some pretty sharp opponents. That means the public won’t get a say on every move, and indeed moves have to be made on the spot often and with a degree of secrecy as well. All we should be concerned about is that Cameron is going to play the game to the best of his ability and deliver for our country. This looks likely now. Cameron wants to get control of our borders back in his next move. If he achieves this then he is home and dry. OK there are a lot of other powers we want back, but control of our borders is a huge one. If he can at least get that under his belt by the time of the next election then people will know he means business. So far so good. I would expect that if all else fails there is a good chance the government will get us out in the end. Opinion polls are good enough to gauge what the public wants and his veto scored over 70% approval for those who knew whether it was good or bad, but then a large number didn't know, which tends to strengthen the above argument. Only 19% were actually against it.
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  9. #19
    Trusted Member Road_Hog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bevois View Post
    All I know that there was a lot of calls from the other EU countries for the introduction of a tax on financial trading transactions and for tighter regulations of banks registered in the UK, so whilst Cameron has earned himself triple gold stars from the City of London, he only merits a single blue star from the ordinary UK citizen.
    Oh dear, this is the problem, people don't understand what has happened.

    No, the Tobin tax isn't applicable to UK banks, or US banks etc. However it is applicable to every Eurozone bank. Including those Eurozone banks that are based in the City. So it will still apply to many of the banks that are based in the City that are European banks, so it will affect the City big time.

  10. #20
    Trusted Member Marilyn's Avatar
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    Good post. Referendums work in Switz. because the form of democracy here is not the same as you have.
    It is very complex and is by no means what it is perceived to be in the UK, but works quite differently.... and works well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Lotsov View Post
    I have always said a referendum is a bad idea. We have a parliamentary democracy, so the referendum will be the next election. This is the best system, and the reason it is the best is because holding referendums all the time has the unintended consequence that it puts the politicians in constant election mode. When they spend all their time campaigning then they don't have any time for doing the job they had been elected to do.

    Furthermore it becomes a kind of populist government, and that is an extremely bad thing. You saw the case of Emma West. The popular demand was that she should be shot. Now say anyone could call a referendum at any time with enough votes. We would have the worst laws you could possibly imagine. Take the case Sarah Payne and the subsequent law, known as Sarah’s law, if you want a real life example of how bad laws can be. It turns into a kind of mob rule, or to use another name for it, what you are talking of is Marxism, and this is where you have the People’s Republic of wherever. It was demonstrated that Marxism was particularly bad in the time of Stalin. Stalin rose to power much like Hitler did. These dictators us the basest emotions of the human psyche to rouse up the crowds and get a kind of fake democratic legitimacy.

    Now in the case of a referendum on EU matters it makes the job of the government a far more difficult one. The government knows it has to deliver or it won’t win the next election. It knows it has to deal with the EU and the EU is a serious threat. What we are involved with here is a complex diplomatic game of fast-moving chess. It is well above the minds of the dumbed down electorate. We have to play this game with the utmost stealth because when have some pretty sharp opponents. That means the public won’t get a say on every move, and indeed moves have to be made on the spot often and with a degree of secrecy as well. All we should be concerned about is that Cameron is going to play the game to the best of his ability and deliver for our country. This looks likely now. Cameron wants to get control of our borders back in his next move. If he achieves this then he is home and dry. OK there are a lot of other powers we want back, but control of our borders is a huge one. If he can at least get that under his belt by the time of the next election then people will know he means business. So far so good. I would expect that if all else fails there is a good chance the government will get us out in the end. Opinion polls are good enough to gauge what the public wants and his veto scored over 70% approval for those who knew whether it was good or bad, but then a large number didn't know, which tends to strengthen the above argument. Only 19% were actually against it.

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