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Thread: Riot sentences "too severe"

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    Default Riot sentences "too severe"

    Swift, severe sentences have been upheld by the Appeal Court. While six months for taking a bottle of water might be too harsh in normal times, I've no objection to examples being made where widespread arson and looting have put communities across the country in danger.

    As a spin-off, crime appears to have dropped as perpetrators have been removed from society.

    Maybe the next move should be to apply the clauses that terminate tenancies when family members are convicted of criminal offences...

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    Trusted Member Francis Overdere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patman Post View Post
    Swift, severe sentences have been upheld by the Appeal Court. While six months for taking a bottle of water might be too harsh in normal times, I've no objection to examples being made where widespread arson and looting have put communities across the country in danger.

    As a spin-off, crime appears to have dropped as perpetrators have been removed from society.

    Maybe the next move should be to apply the clauses that terminate tenancies when family members are convicted of criminal offences...
    It may perhaps be the case that far from the riot sentences being too severe that most other sentences that are too light.

    Secondly you cannot terminate tenancies if a family member is found guilty of a criminal offence.It's an insane idea.

    You would have the ridiculous scenario of whole families being made homeless because one member committed a crime. Apart from such punishments only punishing one group in society i.e tenants of social housing, it would create far more social problems. Or perhaps you'd recommend re-opening the Marshalsea prison of Dickens' time so their families could go with them into prison?

    Like the idea of stopping benefits for the families of criminals it is simply knee jerk Tory hysteria.
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    Moderator angelman's Avatar
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    I think that those who object should look past the bottle of water. To me, and the sentence seems to back this up, they were charged with being part of the rioting/looting and that they "only" stole a bottle of water is immaterial. 6 months for a bottle of water does seem excessively harsh, but call it 6 months for rioting/looting and it seems OK to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Overdere View Post
    It may perhaps be the case that far from the riot sentences being too severe that most other sentences that are too light.

    Secondly you cannot terminate tenancies if a family member is found guilty of a criminal offence.It's an insane idea.

    You would have the ridiculous scenario of whole families being made homeless because one member committed a crime. Apart from such punishments only punishing one group in society i.e tenants of social housing, it would create far more social problems. Or perhaps you'd recommend re-opening the Marshalsea prison of Dickens' time so their families could go with them into prison?

    Like the idea of stopping benefits for the families of criminals it is simply knee jerk Tory hysteria.
    Apropos of nothing, punishing a whole family for the crime of one member is collective punishment that was used by Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot. Families were exterminated, imprisoned or deported for the crimes of one member, sometimes only a distant relative or person with the same surname (in the case of the Bukhanins, only 2 of whom survived the purges). More recently Sharon/Netanyahu have bulldozed the homes of extended Palestinian families for the crimes of one or 2 male members or even, on more than 20 occasions, dropped 1000lb bombs on homes of suspected terrorists, regardless of how many women and children are inside.

    I would be mortified if I found myself homeless for something I didn't do and which I might even have railed against or discouraged. If, however, a lone drug dealer or fence is running a business from social housing then he/she should be evicted (it's against the rules of most modern tenancies, along with other anti-social behaviour). Tenants who breach the terms of their tenancies have always been evicted in any event, but the breaches relate to the house itself (non-payment of rent being a common one). In some cases the tenants' families are effected, but they are also looked after by the local authority. We had a family evicted around here for being 3000 in rent arrears, but they were rehoused in a private let on housing benefit and their money was docked to clear the previous arrears.

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    Trusted Member Francis Overdere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aardvark View Post
    Apropos of nothing, punishing a whole family for the crime of one member is collective punishment that was used by Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot. Families were exterminated, imprisoned or deported for the crimes of one member, sometimes only a distant relative or person with the same surname (in the case of the Bukhanins, only 2 of whom survived the purges). More recently Sharon/Netanyahu have bulldozed the homes of extended Palestinian families for the crimes of one or 2 male members or even, on more than 20 occasions, dropped 1000lb bombs on homes of suspected terrorists, regardless of how many women and children are inside.

    I would be mortified if I found myself homeless for something I didn't do and which I might even have railed against or discouraged. If, however, a lone drug dealer or fence is running a business from social housing then he/she should be evicted (it's against the rules of most modern tenancies, along with other anti-social behaviour). Tenants who breach the terms of their tenancies have always been evicted in any event, but the breaches relate to the house itself (non-payment of rent being a common one). In some cases the tenants' families are effected, but they are also looked after by the local authority. We had a family evicted around here for being 3000 in rent arrears, but they were rehoused in a private let on housing benefit and their money was docked to clear the previous arrears.
    The Housing Benefit system is in total chaos.At one time virtually housing benefit was paid direct to the landlord. At present,tenants of social housing usually have the benefit paid direct to the landlord or housing association. Tenants of private property receive their benefit and supposed to pay it to the landlord. (Blair's idea.)

    Cameron intends to go in the opposite direction and arrange for all tenants to receive the benefit to pay to the landlord.

    Some councils have their own departments to administer HB,others farm it out to companies like Liberata and Capita.

    I personally know a tenant in social housing sheltered accommodation whose rent account has been overpaid HB of 21 a week since April. He's tried to stop them paying it,he's tried to refund the money,his housing association has tried to stop them paying it.

    The council insist he is getting the right amount and won't stop paying it.There is no system whereby he can send them a cheque. He has to wait until they correct the error,if they ever do.

    The reason for the error? No one knows why but they have come to the conclusion that his 60 year old wife is pregnant and receiving maternity pay and refuse to accept she isn't!
    This is England and .....

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    Junior Member JohnnyBoy's Avatar
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    I don't think the sentences are too harsh. After all, if you're willing to riot, burn, abuse people and cause chaos, what's the problem with a strict punishment? If I was going to nick stuff under such circumstances, I hope I'd have the sense to make sure that I wasn't being filmed on CCTV. What's this country coming to. Are the thugs of today also the victims of our poor education system? Come on hoodies, have some respect for yourselves and think before you act.

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    Trusted Member IceDragon's Avatar
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    This is what they do to looters in Haiti.



    They don't have much opportunity to appeal, they should just serve their sentence and shut up.

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    they are not too severe sentences! they are good sentences that hopefully will put people of thinking about rioting again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aardvark View Post
    Apropos of nothing, punishing a whole family for the crime of one member is collective punishment that was used by Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot. Families were exterminated, imprisoned or deported for the crimes of one member, sometimes only a distant relative or person with the same surname (in the case of the Bukhanins, only 2 of whom survived the purges). More recently Sharon/Netanyahu have bulldozed the homes of extended Palestinian families for the crimes of one or 2 male members or even, on more than 20 occasions, dropped 1000lb bombs on homes of suspected terrorists, regardless of how many women and children are inside.

    I would be mortified if I found myself homeless for something I didn't do and which I might even have railed against or discouraged. If, however, a lone drug dealer or fence is running a business from social housing then he/she should be evicted (it's against the rules of most modern tenancies, along with other anti-social behaviour). Tenants who breach the terms of their tenancies have always been evicted in any event, but the breaches relate to the house itself (non-payment of rent being a common one). In some cases the tenants' families are effected, but they are also looked after by the local authority. We had a family evicted around here for being 3000 in rent arrears, but they were rehoused in a private let on housing benefit and their money was docked to clear the previous arrears.
    It’s all down to parenting. Either you are a good parent or your not. If you are not then you have caused the problem. Turn the telly off for an hour or two each night and get them to read a book. It won’t kill them you know. It was not the Palestinians who are rioting and to draw such a parallel is ridiculous and to refer to Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot is again rather silly or are you saying the rioters were some sort of freedom moment?
    Last edited by longjohn; 24-10-2011 at 01:52 PM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patman Post View Post
    Swift, severe sentences have been upheld by the Appeal Court. While six months for taking a bottle of water might be too harsh in normal times, I've no objection to examples being made where widespread arson and looting have put communities across the country in danger. As a spin-off, crime appears to have dropped as perpetrators have been removed from society. Maybe the next move should be to apply the clauses that terminate tenancies when family members are convicted of criminal offences...
    Yes way too severe. The British government goes around the world killing innocent people on a regular basis for the last 500 years,no charge. Guy steals a bottle of water, 6 months in prison. Bankers around the world break the law and dump the whole world economy in the crapper, no charge. Guy steals a bottle of water, 6 months in prison. Work it out.

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