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Thread: As epics go, this was pretty epic...

  1. #61
    Trusted Member Traditionalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbrian View Post
    Eh, like the guy who was killed in Saladin's tent, or all of the bodies of Christians lying slaughtered? The only good guy bit was at the end was when the Christians were allowed to evacuate Jerusalem. Don't know if that was true or not, but Crusaders massacred people in Jerusalem in 1099. Good and bad on both sides.
    You need to stop getting your history from Hollywood movies and do some reading instead.
    Its quite embarrassing for a grown man.
    Just a few inaccuracies noted in the film.


    Orlando Bloom's character, Balian of Ibelin, was a close ally of Raymond; however, he was a mature gentleman, just a year or two younger than Raymond, and one of the most important nobles in the kingdom, not a French blacksmith. His father Barisan (which was originally his own name, modified into French as 'Balian') founded the Ibelin family in the east, and probably came from Italy. Balian and Sibylla were indeed united in the defense of Jerusalem; however, no romantic relationship existed between the two. Balian married Sibylla's stepmother Maria Comnena, Dowager Queen of Jerusalem and Lady of Nablus. The Old French Continuation of William of Tyre (the so-called Chronicle of Ernoul) claimed that Sibylla had been infatuated with Balian's older brother Baldwin of Ibelin, a widower over twice her age, but this is doubtful; instead, it seems that Raymond of Tripoli attempted a coup to marry her off to him to strengthen the position of his faction; however, this legend seems to have been behind the film's creation of a romance between Sibylla and a member of the Ibelin family.[32]

    William of Tyre discovers Baldwin IV's leprosy; his accounts form the historical basis for much of the film.


    King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem, who reigned from 1174 to 1185, was a leper, and his sister Sibylla did marry Guy of Lusignan. Also, Baldwin IV had a falling out with Guy before his death, and so Guy did not succeed Baldwin IV immediately. Baldwin crowned Sibylla's son from her previous marriage to William of Montferrat, five-year-old Baldwin V co-king in his own lifetime, in 1183.[33] The little boy reigned as sole king for one year, dying in 1186 at nine years of age. After her son's death, Sibylla and Guy (to whom she was devoted) garrisoned the city, and she claimed the throne. The coronation scene in the movie was, in real life, more of a shock: Sibylla had been forced to promise to divorce Guy before becoming queen, with the assurance that she would be permitted to pick her own consort. After being crowned by Patriarch Heraclius of Jerusalem (who is unnamed in the movie), she chose to crown Guy as her consort. Raymond III of Tripoli, the film's Tiberias, was not present, but was in Nablus attempting a coup, with Balian of Ibelin, to raise her half-sister (Balian's stepdaughter), princess Isabella of Jerusalem, to the throne; however, Isabella's husband, Humphrey IV of Toron, refusing to precipitate a civil war, swore allegiance to Guy.[34]
    Raymond of Tripoli was a cousin of Amalric I of Jerusalem, and one of the Kingdom's most powerful nobles, as well as sometime regent. He had a claim to the throne himself, but, being childless, instead tried to advance his allies the Ibelin family. He was often in conflict with Guy and Raynald, who had risen to their positions by marrying wealthy heiresses and through the king's favor. Guy and Raynald did harass Saladin's caravans, and the claim that Raynald captured Saladin's sister is based on the account given in the Old French Continuation of William of Tyre. This claim is not supported by any other accounts, and is generally believed to be false. In actuality, after Raynald's attack on one caravan, Saladin made sure that the next one, in which his sister was traveling, was properly guarded: the lady came to no harm.[32]
    Balian's relations with Richard were far from amicable, because he supported Conrad against Richard's vassal Guy. He and his wife Maria arranged her daughter Isabella's forcible divorce from Humphrey of Toron so she could marry Conrad. Ambroise, who wrote a poetic account of the crusade, called Balian "more false than a goblin" and said he "should be hunted with dogs".[35]
    An episode of The History Channel's series History vs. Hollywood analyzed the historical accuracy of the film. This program and a Movie Real (a series by A&E Network) episode about Kingdom of Heaven were both included on the DVD version of the movie.

  2. #62
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    I was referring to something I read in 'Chronicle of the World'. Where did i say I was getting my history from a Hollywood movie?

  3. #63
    Trusted Member Citizen67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffBingham View Post
    Those pesky Muslim's and African's... how unreasonable they are..... defending their own lands against white skinned invaders from the west ... will they ever learn ..??
    Self-Hate at our imperfect History? Is other people's history perfect?
    You Vote Labour becoz your Parents did, not becoz you are a Socialist!

  4. #64
    Trusted Member ANGLO-STAFFS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Rackham View Post
    We watched a film last night called 'Kingdom of Heaven' I wasn't all that interested until Mrs Rackham pointed out it was an historical drama about the first crusade, hey I thought to meself lets give it a go. OK it was a film not a documentary but even so it was very watchable with a good cast. War in those days was very up-close and eye to eye.

    A good film.

    Epic scale,
    Good cast,
    Weak script,
    Hollywood ‘history’.

    War was bloody, is bloody!

  5. #65
    Trusted Member Red Rackham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffBingham View Post
    A good film

    Intersting to be reminded that European Christian societies have a long tradition of slaughtering the brown people of the middle east .... a tradition that is very much alive and well today ..hundreds of years later...
    LOL you are one of the many who have little concept of wtf is going on. Hey it's OK, as long as you have a warm cup of milky tea at bedtime life is good, right?
    It is not racist to be concerned about immigration.

  6. #66
    Trusted Member Red Rackham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffBingham View Post
    Those pesky Muslim's and African's... how unreasonable they are..... defending their own lands against white skinned invaders from the west ... will they ever learn ..??
    Indeed, had the job been done properly in the first place a second and third crusade would not have been necessary. Sloppy, very sloppy.
    It is not racist to be concerned about immigration.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffBingham View Post
    A good film

    Intersting to be reminded that European Christian societies have a long tradition of slaughtering the brown people of the middle east .... a tradition that is very much alive and well today ..hundreds of years later...
    nah they set about themselves in about 1500 BC, we only provided interval entertainemnt.
    Islamic oppression and sexist sharia law should not be allowed free rein in our democratic society.
    King Mike is Dead, long live King Simon of Jerilderia

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