noachian

Do you support the Monarchy? Before you vote make sure you have seen both sides of the argument. Just think for a second, would you really want a British George Bush as the head of State?

Smidgey

Would we want another George III or George IV?

By the way, I cannot vote on your poll.

Edit: My mistake. I can.

harryaldridge

Ah, difficult question. A few thoughts...

I have no strong feelings either way on the Monarchy.
The Monarchy is good for tourism.
The Constitutional Monarchy arrangement is supposed to act as a check and balance although has been fault recently.
Tradition is good as it reminds you of the past. You need the wisdom of the past to ensure a good future.

So with that mix of thoughts I am stil confused. The problem with the monarchy is basically that they cannot use their power for fear of sparking a contitutional crisis. So logically I quite like the idea of an elected 'defender of freedoms' whose job it would be to take on the role of head of state but who would be able to execise the power the monarch has but wont use to stand up for the people. However this is bizarre and would not be necessary if instead there was some constitution. But the history and tradition is nice and reminds us of how we arrived here today. But the Monarchy doesn't serve any useful purpose other than as ambassador abroad and for tourism. A monarchy is anti-meritocratic, but does that matter?

I really don't know. I would be reluctant to get rid of the Monarchy. I don't want a president. Please give me some arguments to help me decide.

__________________
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Vote Harry Aldridge (PPC and MEP)

Besoeker

Tourist revenue exceeding the cost of the civil list?

noachian

Yes but theres no way of bringing back another George III because the Constitution out ways the Monarchy in the Constitutional Monarchy, the Monarchy wasnt as it is today in his days. However we could easily have a Hitler or a Stalin, or a Sadam or a Mugabe or Kim II-Sung, or a Mossalini. Theres nothing stopping them when a Republic is established however in a Monarchy we know exectly how to handle the meddling ones. And there is always the safy net of Royal assent when nessicery.

__________________
Consummerism will make corpses of us all!!

"A Monarchy which above all, values the Liberty of the subject." Marcus Aurelius on perfect society.

"Control thy passions, lest they take vengeance on thee." - Epictetus.

noachian

Certainly; the Monarchy provides a HEREDITERY Head of State which mean that nobody has a choice who its going to be; this might seem like a bad thing at first but if you think, this person is going to be raised their WHOLE life to do this job correctly, all their childhood will be conditioning this child to become the ideal Head of State for our Unity of Kingdoms. Also if there is no vote then everybody wins, if you think about it; if theres a vote on an Elected head of sate then your neibough is saying "I think I am going to vote for Charles this time he promotes farming" and you completely disagree so therefore there becomes tention with you and your neibourgh. With a Monarchy the Monarch reprisents EVERYONE, who has a better connection with those Veterans whoes friends died for; a pompus politician who only reprisents the people who voted for him? My great Great Uncle died in the Grea War for Civilization (WWI) and on his letter to his Church he enclosed "P.S. I am proud to be fighting for my KING and country" if my uncle and thousands of others died for their King then I am glad to still have his heir on the Throne. Just think would you really want a David Beckam as the ceremonial President because thats the people that would be voted into the role. Not dedicated, hardworking, inspirational 26 year old women with about the same moral values as Jesus and Gandi. You see the Monarchy reprisents everyone, and everyone should be willing to reprisent the Monarchy. 9 of the 17 most patriotic countries in the world are Monarchies, only 8 are republics (REAL STATISTIC) and that excludes the other hundreds of republics which despise their governements.

"A nation without a past is a Nation with without future"

__________________
Consummerism will make corpses of us all!!

"A Monarchy which above all, values the Liberty of the subject." Marcus Aurelius on perfect society.

"Control thy passions, lest they take vengeance on thee." - Epictetus.

Smidgey

Many of those dictators arose in states with checks and balances. To presume that a monarchy will somehow prevent dictators from gaining power is rather naive.

The monarch does not represent me.

My relatives died in both of the World Wars. My grandfather was a Royal Engineer who was shot in the head in North Africa (luckily he survived to live out the rest of his war days in an Italian PoW camp). He was a republican all his life, does he not deserve the same accolades? I also find it quite absurd that the defenders of freedom are dying for a man in a funny hat. My relatives who died fought for freedom and nothing less!

I don't know why you mention patriotism either. Patriotism is not such a great thing if it is brought under the auspices of fascism (such as Hitler's Germany) or under communism (such as Stalinist Russia). Patriotism is a very dangerous double edged sword. I much prefer the old dictum of that great man of freedom, Benjamin Franklin:

"Wherever there is liberty, that is my country."

Westcountryman

You'd rather die for someone like Tony Blair?

I'm a Monarchist through and through. God Save The Queen.

Oh, and for the record, Codified Constitutions don't stop dictators either. However, the Crown may, as at least the Crown is a figure opposition to a dictator can rally around, and carries some authority.

__________________
the cake is a lie.
the cake is a lie.
the cake is a lie.
the cake is a lie.

noachian

Very nice quote there, I have heard it man many times expecially by my pompus American friend to expalin "THAT EVERYBODY IS AN AMERICAN WHO BELIEVES IN FREEDOM" which I see as a very dull approach to ones pride a service to country. I am glad your grandfather fought for mine and your freedom as did my gradfather. Its true you dont have to be a Monarchist to fight for your country in liberty we find the willingness to fight. However I was talking more about the Veterans we have today; do you really think they would have connected better with a corrupt, adultering, power-lusful money-grabbing politician or rather the 81 year old woman who has pusher and forcer her life and soul into the job which killed her father and which keeps Britain unique in the world of many many failed or failing Republics.....BRITAIN HAS NEVER FAILED FROM WITHIN ITSELF AND NEVER WILL (unless people like you take the populace), I will be willing to defend freedom and fight for a woman who has inspired me so much to put my duty first and my slef second; no matter how hard the task in hand. Did Bill Clinton among other world presidents do that NO, what do they do? they give up. When it all gets hard they resign and leave all the preasure of the public behind. Her Majesty the Queen has put up with pull and plunder from the public and still soldiers on; would you be still head of 16 states if you were 81 I DOUBT. "I have given this more thought than most people and I have reached my own conculdion:

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!"

__________________
Consummerism will make corpses of us all!!

"A Monarchy which above all, values the Liberty of the subject." Marcus Aurelius on perfect society.

"Control thy passions, lest they take vengeance on thee." - Epictetus.

noachian

Bravo! I agree. The only way an 'evil dictator' (excuse the childish phrase) would be able to push him/herself into power in this Kingdom is through either support from far leftists or from; like most other abolished Monarchies whic have been replaced by dictators KILL THE MONARCH (and other heirs). Modern UKIP your very right I would rather die for a person who has put their whole life into the service of their country than some corrupt politcian who was elected by half the population and not by the other half. Thus causing a seperation between the State just like in the bloody field of politics, Smidgy do you really want a head of state who represents on side of the political spectrum, a person who will reprisent our nation and country to be bias on one topic and agree with certsain thing and not with other and be open about it. The Queen is Politically neutral by Constitution therefore she reprisents everyone and not just Tories (although she is seen to be Conservative being a Monarch and all) or just Socialists or just Communists, she reprisents everybody be cayse she was not voted in by a massive wake of nutters. Smidgey, the majority of the British populace are socialist! And if we had a democratically elected head of state (which would be a waste of time since we might as well have someone who was born to do it) then the socialists would vote for the most socialist candidate; therefore the person who will reprisent our nation at every world cup, Christmas Broadcast, ribbon cutting and opening of Parliament will be only reprisenting the socialist popultion. Do you finally see what I mean now?

__________________
Consummerism will make corpses of us all!!

"A Monarchy which above all, values the Liberty of the subject." Marcus Aurelius on perfect society.

"Control thy passions, lest they take vengeance on thee." - Epictetus.