If the UK divides what will happen to UKIP

eublues · 03-12-2006, 06:16 PM

True enough - it would be a sell out against the England, just as GB has been sold out with the EU.

mkpdavies · 03-12-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

The UK joined the EU, not the separate nations. Each nation, by way of their own Parliament and elected government, would then have to re-apply to join the EU and a rerefendum would have to be held for their citizens?

Do you always just make up stuff?

Didn't you read what Unionist posted about Denmark and Greenland? Or didn't you understand it?

Greenland had to fight like hell to get out of the EU once it had split from Denmark and they DIDN'T have traitor MPs wanting to keep them in, like England would do.

Please, look into what you are proclaiming in the future. It will save you from further embarrasment.

Colin McNamee · 03-12-2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

By the way, I'm adding OTHER to the options, because it is fair and because I can.

......and then I voted. Because then I felt able to.

Hartlepool · 03-12-2006, 07:24 PM

ME TOO.

rjt · 07-12-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

No option of other I see.

How fair of you.

I chose Other, if Britain is smashed into bits and the squabling between the puppets in charge follows, then the EU will swallow up all of the home nations in full and UKIP will be banned anyway.

So it will become an illegal group of freedom fighters.

You heard it hear first folks, if the people of Brtiain democratically decide to end the union, UKIP will take to the hills and become an offspring of Mr Bin Laden.

The IRA where described by some as freedom fighters.

mkpdavies · 07-12-2006, 03:30 PM

Do you wear special mind altering googles when you read stuff?

Hartlepool · 07-12-2006, 06:04 PM

You may have to excuse rjt,he may be exhausted from fighting off the French in Kent as they have claimed it as the Arc Manche Region.

They reckon he's a little English ******** terrier when he gets going too.

Pragmatist · 08-12-2006, 07:48 AM

Hartlepool
As far as i am aware the French are not invading so you can come out from under the table and take your respirator off...oh i see you were not wearing one...sorry.

.................................................. .............................

Look, the trend appears to be that people are feeling disenfranchised from the union, in other words it does not provide tangable benefits that is something that can be felt by the ordinary person in the street. I am quite easy as to whether the UK splits up or not, however, we must be able to agree on some very basic points before we carry on with this discussion.

1. The future of the union is quite likely to be decided by a Scotish vote.
2. Unionist sentiment north of the border is ebbing away despite the so called benefits.
3. UKIP has very little in the way of popular support in Scotland.
3. If Scotland votes to go it alone then by default England will become independent.
4. In this event the future of unionist parties is unclear.

Now my original question was posed in a deliberately provocative way to see the absolute positions of both the UKIP and ED sides of this coin and this is my conclusion.

As a general principle both parties seem to agree with a form of independence, UKIP from the EU and the ED's from the EU and the UK. Both these positions have some validity yet the tide seems to be in the ED's favour if current trends continue and i can detect an inconsitency in the UKIP argument which must be addressed, it is this....

If UKIP want UK independence from an EU superstate then why cannot the ED's equally claim independence from the UK superstate? As a matter of principle surely UKIP members must see that inconsistency in their objection to English aspirations?
Likewise, i suspect that the ED's frustration with UKIP is that they sense a wasted opprtunity after the last EU elections when UKIP were given a thumping mandate by the electorate to do something.....what has been done.......nothing tangable at all. UKIP are seen to jump on the bandwagon of other peole's endeavours as private individuals uncover the truth about the EU, i suspect UKIP MEP's are fast becoming seduced by the very thng they claim to despise.

On balance i favour the ED's position. Unless UKIP can provide evidence to the contrary.

Unionist · 08-12-2006, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

As a general principle both parties seem to agree with a form of independence, UKIP from the EU and the ED's from the EU and the UK.

Not according to the EDP itself which put out a notice a few days ago to the effect that ED policy does not favour either a federal UK or English independence but only an English parliament on the same basis as the Scottish parliament. This has been discussed on another thread.

I understand that there have been various disputes among the EDs over this matter but this is the definitive position.

Pragmatist · 08-12-2006, 08:27 AM

Unionist
Thanks for the info, i was not aware of the issue being discussed on another thread, do you know if it the case with UKIP or the ED's to offer a referendum option on UK independence from the EU and/or English independence from the UK? This would give some clarity.

View Poll Results: What will happen to UKIP in the event of the UK breaking up?
Be consigned to the history books?	6	14.63%
Change to ENGIP/SCOTIP, CYMIP	14	34.15%
Disband becuse of redundant ideology	1	2.44%
Cry over their track record of success in Scotland and Wales	3	7.32%
Take a hint and go away	2	4.88%
Other (please specify)	15	36.59%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

07-12-2006, 03:30 PM	#26 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,615	Do you wear special mind altering googles when you read stuff? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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03-12-2006, 06:16 PM	#21 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,951	True enough - it would be a sell out against the England, just as GB has been sold out with the EU.

03-12-2006, 07:24 PM	#24 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,574	ME TOO.

07-12-2006, 06:04 PM	#27 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,574	You may have to excuse rjt,he may be exhausted from fighting off the French in Kent as they have claimed it as the Arc Manche Region. They reckon he's a little English ******** terrier when he gets going too.

08-12-2006, 07:48 AM	#28 (permalink)
Pragmatist Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lancaster Posts: 13	Hartlepool As far as i am aware the French are not invading so you can come out from under the table and take your respirator off...oh i see you were not wearing one...sorry. .................................................. ............................. Look, the trend appears to be that people are feeling disenfranchised from the union, in other words it does not provide tangable benefits that is something that can be felt by the ordinary person in the street. I am quite easy as to whether the UK splits up or not, however, we must be able to agree on some very basic points before we carry on with this discussion. 1. The future of the union is quite likely to be decided by a Scotish vote. 2. Unionist sentiment north of the border is ebbing away despite the so called benefits. 3. UKIP has very little in the way of popular support in Scotland. 3. If Scotland votes to go it alone then by default England will become independent. 4. In this event the future of unionist parties is unclear. Now my original question was posed in a deliberately provocative way to see the absolute positions of both the UKIP and ED sides of this coin and this is my conclusion. As a general principle both parties seem to agree with a form of independence, UKIP from the EU and the ED's from the EU and the UK. Both these positions have some validity yet the tide seems to be in the ED's favour if current trends continue and i can detect an inconsitency in the UKIP argument which must be addressed, it is this.... If UKIP want UK independence from an EU superstate then why cannot the ED's equally claim independence from the UK superstate? As a matter of principle surely UKIP members must see that inconsistency in their objection to English aspirations? Likewise, i suspect that the ED's frustration with UKIP is that they sense a wasted opprtunity after the last EU elections when UKIP were given a thumping mandate by the electorate to do something.....what has been done.......nothing tangable at all. UKIP are seen to jump on the bandwagon of other peole's endeavours as private individuals uncover the truth about the EU, i suspect UKIP MEP's are fast becoming seduced by the very thng they claim to despise. On balance i favour the ED's position. Unless UKIP can provide evidence to the contrary.

08-12-2006, 08:27 AM	#30 (permalink)
Pragmatist Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lancaster Posts: 13	Unionist Thanks for the info, i was not aware of the issue being discussed on another thread, do you know if it the case with UKIP or the ED's to offer a referendum option on UK independence from the EU and/or English independence from the UK? This would give some clarity.