Clegg calls for Euro referendum - Page 2

Britannist · 25-02-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eublues

The Lib Dems know that there is absolutely no chance of an in or out of the EU referendum being held in the foreseeable future - on the other hand what might just possibly trigger this?

In answer to the above question (on what could trigger a referendum on continued UK membership of the EU):

Brown - in order to try to deflect criticism of him during the next General Election campaign that his party broke its promise to hold an EU Treaty referendum - might promise that he would hold an "in or out" referendum if Labour win the next General Election.

I am not seeing he will definitely do this (he may not) but if he did he would do so not just for the reason I give above but because he would hope to stunt potentially rising support for UKIP and other parties backing an EU Treaty referendum and he might hope to get some eurosceptic and anti-votes too.

If he then went on to win the next General Election (having promised an "in our out of the EU" referendum) he might then hold one but possibly only do so if various 'hurdles' were attached to it such as a vote for quitting the EU only being valid if voter turnout was over 60% (I believe this rule was used in the referendum on devolution in Scotland in the late 1970's - a referendum in which there was a narrow Yes to devolution vote but one which was officially not valid due to low turnout).

Britannist · 25-02-2008, 07:58 PM

More on this at:

UK Independence Party - Lib Dems' weasel words on EU

MAZZINI · 25-02-2008, 08:14 PM

One wonders why the Lib Dem's are so pro-EU given their previous, and in theory still, support for decentralisation from Westminster? A closer look however at recent events suggests otherwise.
After World War II many 'liberals' (and a few socialists) thought that the only way to stop war in Europe was to take away a countries independent capacity to wage it. Some others perhaps thought that the European connection might 'liberalise' institutions and ultmately the public (remember also that PR, a one-time 'must have' in the old Liberal Party, has a strong tradition within Europe). Remember too that they absorbed the SDP which were/are heavily into the concept of a EU 'Super-State'. I also recall David Steel stood on the Radical Party list in Italy some years back presumably on the basis that if you can't get left-liberalism here then.............

Britannist · 26-02-2008, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAZZINI

One wonders why the Lib Dem's are so pro-EU...

Because that party is swarming with europhiles - it is the political arm of the EU in the UK. Its main reason for existence is to support and promote the EU.

If voters were fully aware of the political agenda of the Liberal Dims (i.e. destroying our Pound, putting us all under EU Government and increasing immigration) the number voting for them would fall dramatically.

MAZZINI · 26-02-2008, 10:13 PM

Yes i agree that most Lib Dem voters would probably disown the Europhile leadership if they were political enough to be concerned. The LD's position of the EU is hardly a secret so, apart from the pro-EU voter, most just turn a blind eye. Essentially a Lib Dem voter is opting for a safe/respectable 'alternative' to the 'Big Two' (as apart from the less respectable/more radical UKIP, BNP, Greens etc). The impact of the Lisbon Treaty however given the media interest, the anti-Treaty campaign and Clegg's suicidal position may very well hurt them in the next GE.

My main and earlier point though was to help explain why the party has developed into the slavishly pro-EU party it is today, it certainly wasn't an overnight conversion.

Britannist · 29-02-2008, 12:10 AM

Lib 'Dem' pro-EU MP claims his party's 2005 referendum pledge was for withdrawal vote

Ihope · 01-03-2008, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperiorSteve

Clegg calls for Euro referendum - Yahoo! News UK

Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg wants Britain to be able to decide its future in Europe.

ADVERTISEMENT

He said he believes the time has now come for a referendum on whether the country should stay in the EU.

Mr Clegg said politicians had "all gone crazy" over Europe and had been "trading blows" in a way that distracted attention from the real debate.

He complained that pro-Europeans such as himself are accused of being "sell-outs" while Eurosceptics are branded "headbangers".

"We've all gone crazy. Pro and anti, Europhile and Eurosceptic, trading blows about the Lisbon treaty in grand rhetoric that obscures the facts," he said.

"It is time for a debate politicians have been too cowardly to hold for 30 years - time for a referendum on the big question. Do we want to be in or out?

"Nobody in this country under the age of 51 has ever been asked that simple question. That includes half of all MPs. We've been signed up to Europe by default: two generations who have never had their say."

Mr Clegg, himself a former Euro-MP will this week table an amendment in Parliament to the Lisbon treaty bill demanding an "in or out" referendum

I AM STILL WANTING TO FIND OUT WHAT TONY BENNS LIST OF POWERS TRANSFERRED TO THE EU WITH THE NEW TREATY ARE. DO YOU KNOW? I HAVE WRITTEN TO TONY BENN BUT NOT RECEIVED A REPLY YET.

Eurosceptic Atlanticist · 01-03-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ihope

I AM STILL WANTING TO FIND OUT WHAT TONY BENNS LIST OF POWERS TRANSFERRED TO THE EU WITH THE NEW TREATY ARE. DO YOU KNOW? I HAVE WRITTEN TO TONY BENN BUT NOT RECEIVED A REPLY YET.

Will you please stop posting in capital letters, it goes against netiquette.

Britannist · 02-03-2008, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ihope

I am still wanting to find out what Tony Benn's list of powers transferred to the EU with the new Treaty are. Do you know? I have written to Tony Benn but not received a reply yet.

UKIP have a full list of the powers transferred if Mr. Benn does not reply to you (I am sure he will reply - I expect there might be a delay because he is probably very busy). If you want the UKIP list of powers transferred to the EU in the EU 'Amending' Treaty (EU Constitution version 2) please e-mail UKIP (details on their official website). Or you can contact an organisation called Open Europe who are working very hard to try to stop this latest unwanted EU Treaty. Open Europe can be contacted via the Open Europe website.

arden forester · 04-03-2008, 11:58 AM

I'm Pro-Europe (as if anyone is anti-Europe!) and opposed to the European Union, as it has emerged! (I voted No in Wislon's referendum!)

I do not like being called Anti-European because it is an absurd notion. Only zenophobes are that. Clegg should know better. My children are exactly the same as him. Half-Dutch, the Dutch bit being from a Dutch mother.

I can be against the centralising, money-wasting, corrupting, lying, self-serving, poncing bureaucratic outfit that lives and gorges in the Brussels offices that make up some of this beast's empire, but I am not against the people of other European countries.

I want a Commonwealth of Europe made up of independent nation states. I want a deregulated, free trading, prosperous and clean Europe. I don't want a sleazebag like Mandelson telling me what I can and can't do!

Thank you! I'm stopping now.....................

25-02-2008, 07:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,284	More More on this at: UK Independence Party - Lib Dems' weasel words on EU

25-02-2008, 08:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
MAZZINI Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 24	Lib Dem contradictions One wonders why the Lib Dem's are so pro-EU given their previous, and in theory still, support for decentralisation from Westminster? A closer look however at recent events suggests otherwise. After World War II many 'liberals' (and a few socialists) thought that the only way to stop war in Europe was to take away a countries independent capacity to wage it. Some others perhaps thought that the European connection might 'liberalise' institutions and ultmately the public (remember also that PR, a one-time 'must have' in the old Liberal Party, has a strong tradition within Europe). Remember too that they absorbed the SDP which were/are heavily into the concept of a EU 'Super-State'. I also recall David Steel stood on the Radical Party list in Italy some years back presumably on the basis that if you can't get left-liberalism here then.............

29-02-2008, 12:10 AM	#16 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,284	Europhile Davey on Alan Titchmarsh show on ITV 1 Lib 'Dem' pro-EU MP claims his party's 2005 referendum pledge was for withdrawal vote

04-03-2008, 11:58 AM	#20 (permalink)
arden forester Uber Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Solihull, in The Forest of Arden, Warwickshire! Posts: 2,588	Not double-Dutch but double-speak! I'm Pro-Europe (as if anyone is anti-Europe!) and opposed to the European Union, as it has emerged! (I voted No in Wislon's referendum!) I do not like being called Anti-European because it is an absurd notion. Only zenophobes are that. Clegg should know better. My children are exactly the same as him. Half-Dutch, the Dutch bit being from a Dutch mother. I can be against the centralising, money-wasting, corrupting, lying, self-serving, poncing bureaucratic outfit that lives and gorges in the Brussels offices that make up some of this beast's empire, but I am not against the people of other European countries. I want a Commonwealth of Europe made up of independent nation states. I want a deregulated, free trading, prosperous and clean Europe. I don't want a sleazebag like Mandelson telling me what I can and can't do! Thank you! I'm stopping now..................... __________________ www.ardenforester.blogspot.com

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26-02-2008, 10:13 PM	#15 (permalink)
MAZZINI Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 24	Yes i agree that most Lib Dem voters would probably disown the Europhile leadership if they were political enough to be concerned. The LD's position of the EU is hardly a secret so, apart from the pro-EU voter, most just turn a blind eye. Essentially a Lib Dem voter is opting for a safe/respectable 'alternative' to the 'Big Two' (as apart from the less respectable/more radical UKIP, BNP, Greens etc). The impact of the Lisbon Treaty however given the media interest, the anti-Treaty campaign and Clegg's suicidal position may very well hurt them in the next GE. My main and earlier point though was to help explain why the party has developed into the slavishly pro-EU party it is today, it certainly wasn't an overnight conversion.