snowangel

Hi, I am a french student from London and I am doing an essay on the place of uk in the EU from the economical point of view. I have found all the advantages that it has but now I'm trying to find the negative points. your 10 reasons do not convinced me because the there are too general. could you give me some new ones more specific about the economy. and please do not talk about the french and the german ruling europe....
I am sorry for my english mistakes.
Thank you for your help

mkpdavies

Welcome,

I am glad some opposition is showing up here now, we need some real debate from the pro-EU side as to help show the realities.

I tell you what. Post your 5 best positives here, and I will tell you why they are wrong, or if you have some real positives, I'll give you two negatives to balance it.

Deal?

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snowangel

ok deal, I cannot lose anyway... ;-)

The EU is the largest market in the wolrd with 372 million consumers and nearly 40% of world trade.

By being INTO phpbb_it, the uk have a enviable access to it, and your country is taking advantage of it because 50% of your trade in goods and services is with the EU and 8 of your top ten trading parterners are in it.

Over 3 millions british jobs are linked to trade with eu. Without it, unemployement will increase.

Despite of what you say, without europe, Uk will not have a proper voice because you do not reprensent nothing by comparison with US, Japan,... It is because of the EU that the world still listen to you.


I agree that EU is not perfect and there is a lot to do to make it better, but unlike you, I take the challenge. You are not happy with the way EU is today? Instead of walking away, why not try to change it by talking and making compromise?

looking forward to your answer

Anthony Butcher

We would not lose any of that by leaving the EU. UKIP still want us to retain all of our trade arrangements, and want to stay in the European Union trade zone, just like Norway and Switzerland.
No - those jobs are linked to trade with European countries, not the EU. Leaving the EU will make no difference to job numbers.
At the moment, Britain has a permanent seat on the UN security council, we are the 4th largest economy in the world and we have a strong relationship with both our European neighbours and the USA.

If the UK is further consumed by the EU, we will lose our seat on the UN, we will lose our independent foreign policy, and thus our strong relationship with the USA, and our economy will be used more and more to subsidise poorer countries in the EU.

We have almost no say in the running of the EU, and it is barely holding up the pretence of being democratic at the moment. That is not a strengthened voice in the world.

The EU has had 30 years to establish a model government. They could have cherry picked all the best practices from around the world, looking at which system gave the best value for money, the best control of government finances and provided the most democratic accountability. Instead we have a corrupt, unaccountable bureaucracy.

We have no means of changing it because we have no voice! The only option is to leave and wait for them to sort themselves out.

As for staying in, it is costing our tax payers £4.3 Billlion per year to prop up the EU. That is £200 from every family every year. It costs our businesses £6.3 Billion per year in additional costs to deal with impractical EU regulations. It increases our food bills by around 30-40% above world food prices. It is crippling our farmers and has destroyed our fishing industry.

And the problem is that the EU is NOT improving. The court of Auditors has just announced its annual report and has once again refused to sign off the accounts. The EU hasn’t had a set of accounts cleared for 10 years now.

In 2002 just 10% of the budget was properly accounted for. Yet unbelievably it was actually worse this year, with just 6% of the 95 billion euro budget accounted for. 94% of our EU tax money couldn't be traced properly.

Our politicians have been always been talking and compromising, yet every year the EU gets worse, and every treaty removes sovereignty from Britain. By what logic are you expecting the situation for Britain to improve?

mkpdavies

We like to think of the whole world as one big trading opportunity, restricting ourselves to one particular locaction due to geography seems odd.

For the sake of argument, we will assume your figures are correct (which they are not). We certainly want to stay trading with the rest of Europe, it is mutualy benefitial to do so and we actualy put a lot of business Europes way too. Why do we have to surrender all control of our nation to be part of this trading agreement? When the UK was suckered INTO phpbb_joining the common market, we were led to believe this would be a free trade zone. and nothing more. We don't want to stop trading with Europe, so this point is false.

Britain has influenced this world probably more than any other on this planet. We have more connections with more countries than any other on the planet. We have prominent positions in all of the worlds organisations, including the UN, Nato, the Commonwealth, etc. The US and Japan are very good friends of the UK and take us as seriously as any other nation. Because we don't want to surrender all our control to the EU, doesn't mean we would not team up with the EU or any other block if it were in our interests. Thats the gread thing about not being in the EU, we can decide ourselves which side to take and what is best for us. Within the EU our voice would be drowned out more often than not, and we would be forced INTO phpbb_taking a side that we may not like. Our voice is therefore infinitley more strong, by staying out of the EU.

If we don't agree that the EU is good for Britain, then why would we want to get in and change it? Thats liek saying why didn't we join the Soviet Union to try and make that other failed union work.

Let me make something clear. We are not anti-Europe! I love visiting all the varied different cultures in Europe. Each one is brilliant for it's own individuality. However the EU is forcing these countries INTO phpbb_becoming more and more similar. We don't want to stop you doing this if that is what you want though, just leave us out of it. We will still be your friend and trade with you, as long as you treat us fairly then we will return the favour. We could join the United States if we wanted too, but we don't as we would rather be in control of our own destiny, with an accountable, elected goverment who we can kick out if they are out of order.

Feel free to come back with further questions, or arguments against the above.

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snowangel

don't you think that the EU will take some repressive measures if you do quit? I think they will and then my two first arguments are right. and do not tell me that the trade you are making cannot be replaced by any other country.

Anthony Butcher

Absolutely not. The other European countries are just as dependent upon UK trade as we are on theirs. There is no reason why we shouldn't have an amicable divorce and continue trading in just the same way as Norway and Switzerland.

Sanctions against Britain for not being an EU member might also be illegal anyway.

And what you are actually saying is that we no longer have the right to sovereignty because the EU is blackmailing us. And that is supposed to make us want to stay in the EU more....?

mkpdavies

Thats a very hostile attitude to take. You are saying that if we refuse to be part of the club, that we will be punished for this? If the EU did get all spiteful about this, then we would both suffer. The bad news for the EU though, is Britain buys more from it than can be said vice-versa. So we wouldn't be as badly hit. Britain could go elsewhere for it's goods too, but that would be a real shame.

If the EU is an organisation that would behave in such a spiteful manner, when all the UK wants to do is be friends, then I am even more determined not to become part of it. If the EU did get all heavy handed about it, then organisations such as the WTO would step in and punnish it. Surely you would not want the EU to go down this route, when they could continue as before with Britain being friends, only not having us holding you back in your integration efforts?

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snowangel

yes you are probably right, it was just a thought...
I would like to ask you more details on what you said about the fishing

"It is crippling our farmers and has destroyed our fishing industry."

could you please explain me why and perhaps give me some figures.
could you also tell me how much exactly UK is giving Europe and how much UK have from Europe (in £ or € doesn't matter).
thank you for your help. My point of view is not so clear as it was before, you are confusing me with your answer....

mkpdavies

I am not a full on fishing expert, but I know some people who are :wink:

http://www.eurosceptic.com/channels/...g/contents.htm

The upshot of it is though, Brussels has been trying to control all fishing from it's central location. Any country in the EU is allowed some quota to come and fish our waters. This has meant British fishing fleets have been made to cut back and not fish as much, ruining the industry in this country.

Add this, the outrageous rules that are being pushed on the amounts of fish that these boats can land, and the poor fish have no chance. If a boat catches a lot of fish that is above the quota they are allowed, they have to throw them back INTO phpbb_the sea before reaching land. The fish are most likely dead, so huge amounts of fish are wasted and throwing dead fish INTO phpbb_the sea causes major problems in itself.

Britain did not have this problem when the EU were not in charge, and our fishing industry was thriving. Now it is an empty shell of what it was, all due to us handing all control over to Brussels. Fact.

I will get back to you with the figures side of things, as they seem to change every time I look, so I want to get some accurate ones. Anthony may have them to hand?

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