My name is Derek Smith and I am angry

DerekSmith · 30-10-2004, 01:41 PM

For years I have been in danger of suffering terminal Meldrewitis.

I was frustrated by the failing education system, the failing health system, the failing police system, the upsurge of PC and its impact on free speech, the failure to manage immigration, the greater care for burglars than their targets, the crass CPS decisions, the loss of freedom of choice lb vs kg etc, and the impending loss of government control over the £.

Then I discovered that ALL of these frustrations were being caused by the EU.

I joined UKIP and then learnt that far more was at risk. Our freedom, our sovereignty, our legal system and our democracy are all being given away by our government. -- Then I got really angry.

I do not want that to happen and now there is something that I can do about it. -- Spread the facts and work hard to return a UKIP MP for my constituency.

Information and communication are key to this happening. This forum and sites such as http://www.ukipuncovered.blogspot.com/
and http://www.brugesgroup.com/mediacentre/
are central to distributing the meat and tools of our fight, so my thanks to you Anthony Butcher for creating this service. Some will want to close you down because communication is at the heart of our success. Others will consistently spoil and muddy these waters - that is the price of freedom of speech. The more you see these attempts to harm this service, the more we should all remember this:-

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win"
Mahatma Ghandi (1869 - 1948)

When they are fighting us, we only have one more step to take - WIN.

Anthony Butcher · 30-10-2004, 04:43 PM

Derek, welcome to the forum.

The concerns of the leadership are merely about the problems that can be caused by a handful of anti-UKIP people using the web. I disagree with them, but I do understand it. This isn't a case of "us and them" - we are all on the same side here.

rogerthomas · 08-12-2004, 05:26 PM

Excuse me if I'm missing something but I've visited ukipuncovered several times and have found it to be nothing more than an attempt to discredit and maybe ultimately destroy UKIP.

C_steam · 08-12-2004, 05:30 PM

Agreed, but it's bloody useful for keeping up with what's going on, as long as you remember you're only hearing the news from one particular angle.

A lot like all forms of press really...............

doc_cruel · 08-12-2004, 07:47 PM

Welcome to the debate Derek! - though I've got to warn you, we're anti europe not pro the 1900s!
I guess as only being 22 I'm too young to ever use the old system but I am totally confused by Lbs and Ounchs, inches and yards.... Kgs, meters, it's a lot easier and the international standards.... there's no point being different just because a small section of the population are scared of improvement!

You cant blame everything on the EU mate.... some things yes but others no!

DerekSmith · 08-12-2004, 08:20 PM

Hi doc_cruel,

I guess being only 22 means that you have a habit of reading what you think is there rather than what is actually there. To refresh you I will quote the part which confused you.

Quote:

the loss of freedom of choice lb vs kg etc

Note that I was not bemoaning the loss of lb and oz but the loss of the freedom of choice to trade in whatever units a trader wished to use. If I wish to sell diamonds in carats and you are quite happy to buy them in that unit, then why should we not be allowed to do so.

Get it? FREEDOM OF CHOICE vs abject bureaucracy.

As for your preference for metric or more correctly the SI units system, yes, as a chemist I also prefer the simplicity and uniformity of the metric system, and would you believe it but I can actually work out this new fangled decimal coinage system as well.

Beware doc_cruel, you seem to have a hang up that new is good and old is bad which so colours your perception that you cannot read what is ACTUALLY said.

So 'mate' what things that I mentioned actually cannot be blamed on the EU? Oh, and thank you for the welcome to the debate, as you joined this forum 6 days before me I guess that makes you one of the old hands.

DerekSmith

doc_cruel · 08-12-2004, 09:16 PM

wow derek you are angry..... i suggest you take deep breaths before you type somethig that makes yourself look like an idiot.

It's an interesting point you made about choice.... why should there be standards? Why do we have single simple systems that is clearly understood by everyone, a system that even a 2 year old can understand and stops us all being ripped off?

You may say it's against your personal freedoms that everyone else wants a simple life without the complications of EU directives, red tape and pointless conversions.... but personally I'm happy that I know things are getting simpler and better in the world.

12 lines in an inch, 12 feet in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, 1760 yards in a mile!! how many feet in a mile? How many furlongs in a chain? God knows! I'm cetainly lost without a scientific calculator - but then I'm a lowely student so guess I've knowhere near the IQ of a chemist!

Here at UKIP We dont stand on our high-horse trying to preach something which is stupid.... we're Pro-Britain and taking Britain back to the dark ages is not and never has been policy for us!

If you want to learn about the new system then have a look at http://www.mathleague.com/help/metric/metric.htm - it's very simple really.

DerekSmith · 08-12-2004, 09:24 PM

Hi doc_cruel,

I guess being only 22 means that you have a habit of reading what you think is there rather than what is actually there. To refresh you I will quote the part which confused you.

Quote:

the loss of freedom of choice lb vs kg etc

Note that I was not bemoaning the loss of lb and oz but the loss of the freedom of choice to trade in whatever units a trader wished to use. If I wish to sell diamonds in carats and you are quite happy to buy them in that unit, then why should we not be allowed to do so.

Get it? FREEDOM OF CHOICE vs abject bureaucracy.

As for your preference for metric or more correctly the SI units system, yes, as a chemist I also prefer the simplicity and uniformity of the metric system, and would you believe it but I can actually work out this new fangled decimal coinage system as well.

Beware doc_cruel, you seem to have a hang up that new is good and old is bad which so colours your perception that you cannot read what is ACTUALLY said.

So 'mate' what things that I mentioned actually cannot be blamed on the EU? Oh, and thank you for the welcome to the debate, as you joined this forum 6 days before me I guess that makes you one of the old hands.

DerekSmith

C_steam · 08-12-2004, 09:24 PM

Aww Doc - its just what you're used to!

Neither system is 'better' - actually not being able to express some numbers completely accurately is a problem in itself (1/3rd for example).

Fractional measurement also taught you to be able to manipulate fractions - many, many engineers with little schooling (my dad is one of them) can compute with fractions in their head faster than you may think possible. He 'Knows' that 1/4 * 1/4 is 1/16th. He 'knows' that 1/4 - 3/16 is 1/16 and so on. Try that in school with decimal equivalents.

Just think about it - all of the major (and I mean MAJOR) engineering breakthroughs - aircraft, cars, bridges etc etc were worked in imperial measure.

The point is choice. This was foisted upon us without so much as a bye-your-leave.

Now, calm down, walk a couple of yards and go and have a pint. (oops!)

doc_cruel · 08-12-2004, 09:42 PM

Ai.... I'll give you that.... It'll always be pint.... 500ml is 68 too short :wink:

Studied double maths for A-level so did all about fractions.... nasty part of my life. Being a computer program litrally about 70% of my life is spent redoing things because people felt that standards need not apply; from memory management in AMD/intel chips to web browser compatibility to class modules in various scripting languages.... to the darn US putting their month in the wrong place!

- I guess I just dont get why people stand up and advocate making extra work for people like me... extra red tape so to speak for abolutely no benefit other than 'their personal freedoms'. It's just plain arrogance on their part and costs us all time which we could spend enjoying ourselves!

I thought one of the key reasons we want to leave the EU is to streamline British life not bring back achaic systems that just make everyone under 50's life hell!!

NASA themselves use metric after they lost a shuttle due to bad calculations of imperial in a metric world..... need i say more?

30-10-2004, 01:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
DerekSmith Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Lincs. Posts: 48	My name is Derek Smith and I am angry For years I have been in danger of suffering terminal Meldrewitis. I was frustrated by the failing education system, the failing health system, the failing police system, the upsurge of PC and its impact on free speech, the failure to manage immigration, the greater care for burglars than their targets, the crass CPS decisions, the loss of freedom of choice lb vs kg etc, and the impending loss of government control over the £. Then I discovered that ALL of these frustrations were being caused by the EU. I joined UKIP and then learnt that far more was at risk. Our freedom, our sovereignty, our legal system and our democracy are all being given away by our government. -- Then I got really angry. I do not want that to happen and now there is something that I can do about it. -- Spread the facts and work hard to return a UKIP MP for my constituency. Information and communication are key to this happening. This forum and sites such as http://www.ukipuncovered.blogspot.com/ and http://www.brugesgroup.com/mediacentre/ are central to distributing the meat and tools of our fight, so my thanks to you Anthony Butcher for creating this service. Some will want to close you down because communication is at the heart of our success. Others will consistently spoil and muddy these waters - that is the price of freedom of speech. The more you see these attempts to harm this service, the more we should all remember this:- "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" Mahatma Ghandi (1869 - 1948) When they are fighting us, we only have one more step to take - WIN.

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30-10-2004, 04:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 9,733 Party: None	Derek, welcome to the forum. The concerns of the leadership are merely about the problems that can be caused by a handful of anti-UKIP people using the web. I disagree with them, but I do understand it. This isn't a case of "us and them" - we are all on the same side here.

08-12-2004, 05:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
rogerthomas Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Gwent Posts: 70	Excuse me if I'm missing something but I've visited ukipuncovered several times and have found it to be nothing more than an attempt to discredit and maybe ultimately destroy UKIP.

08-12-2004, 05:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Anwhere far away from the cabalistas Posts: 7,460	Agreed, but it's bloody useful for keeping up with what's going on, as long as you remember you're only hearing the news from one particular angle. A lot like all forms of press really...............

08-12-2004, 07:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
doc_cruel Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 213	Welcome to the debate Derek! - though I've got to warn you, we're anti europe not pro the 1900s! I guess as only being 22 I'm too young to ever use the old system but I am totally confused by Lbs and Ounchs, inches and yards.... Kgs, meters, it's a lot easier and the international standards.... there's no point being different just because a small section of the population are scared of improvement! You cant blame everything on the EU mate.... some things yes but others no!

08-12-2004, 09:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
doc_cruel Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 213	wow derek you are angry..... i suggest you take deep breaths before you type somethig that makes yourself look like an idiot. It's an interesting point you made about choice.... why should there be standards? Why do we have single simple systems that is clearly understood by everyone, a system that even a 2 year old can understand and stops us all being ripped off? You may say it's against your personal freedoms that everyone else wants a simple life without the complications of EU directives, red tape and pointless conversions.... but personally I'm happy that I know things are getting simpler and better in the world. 12 lines in an inch, 12 feet in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, 1760 yards in a mile!! how many feet in a mile? How many furlongs in a chain? God knows! I'm cetainly lost without a scientific calculator - but then I'm a lowely student so guess I've knowhere near the IQ of a chemist! Here at UKIP We dont stand on our high-horse trying to preach something which is stupid.... we're Pro-Britain and taking Britain back to the dark ages is not and never has been policy for us! If you want to learn about the new system then have a look at http://www.mathleague.com/help/metric/metric.htm - it's very simple really.

08-12-2004, 09:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Anwhere far away from the cabalistas Posts: 7,460	Aww Doc - its just what you're used to! Neither system is 'better' - actually not being able to express some numbers completely accurately is a problem in itself (1/3rd for example). Fractional measurement also taught you to be able to manipulate fractions - many, many engineers with little schooling (my dad is one of them) can compute with fractions in their head faster than you may think possible. He 'Knows' that 1/4 * 1/4 is 1/16th. He 'knows' that 1/4 - 3/16 is 1/16 and so on. Try that in school with decimal equivalents. Just think about it - all of the major (and I mean MAJOR) engineering breakthroughs - aircraft, cars, bridges etc etc were worked in imperial measure. The point is choice. This was foisted upon us without so much as a bye-your-leave. Now, calm down, walk a couple of yards and go and have a pint. (oops!)

08-12-2004, 09:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
doc_cruel Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 213	Ai.... I'll give you that.... It'll always be pint.... 500ml is 68 too short :wink: Studied double maths for A-level so did all about fractions.... nasty part of my life. Being a computer program litrally about 70% of my life is spent redoing things because people felt that standards need not apply; from memory management in AMD/intel chips to web browser compatibility to class modules in various scripting languages.... to the darn US putting their month in the wrong place! - I guess I just dont get why people stand up and advocate making extra work for people like me... extra red tape so to speak for abolutely no benefit other than 'their personal freedoms'. It's just plain arrogance on their part and costs us all time which we could spend enjoying ourselves! I thought one of the key reasons we want to leave the EU is to streamline British life not bring back achaic systems that just make everyone under 50's life hell!! NASA themselves use metric after they lost a shuttle due to bad calculations of imperial in a metric world..... need i say more?