News: Survey: Americans Are Strongly Opposed to the North American Union

The Bear · 13-05-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

Public Debt is 43.3% of our GDP thats less than Italy, Hungary, Greece, Belgium, Turkey, Portugal, Germany Austria, Netherlands, Croatia and Poland.

BUT OUR GDP IS MOSTLY DEBT FUNDED.

British-Conservatism · 13-05-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bear

BUT OUR GDP IS MOSTLY DEBT FUNDED.

No there GDP is more debt funded than our's as I just stated.

Smidgey · 13-05-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

An earlier millennium Treasury comparative best practice study suggests potential savings of 35% are possible, with an additional 17% if public service investment was as efficient as the private sector. With no increase in taxes this could eventually release £266 billion per year (£409 million per day, at 2007 prices) to the UK "front line"

National debt could be cleared within a decade.

If Bear's six trillion figure is correct, it will take thirty six years.

Smidgey · 13-05-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British-Conservatism

No there GDP is more debt funded than our's as I just stated.

No, you said public debt. The two are not the same thing.

Ea of Dune · 13-05-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

That’s like a business plan with an entry showing the arival of little green men in their fling saucer as the key deliverable into a PERT net.

Not only that but the export market would need to run at around £200 billion pounds a year from day 1 and for a single producer and in the absence of something that eats **** and ****** petrol that ain’t gonna happen.

You are quoting me out of context here. You suggested we would never be able to regain our export base, this is thoroughly unprovable and has nothing to do with business plans or models. You can't say that we won't be in an export situation that rivals the Industrial Revolution in 100 years anymore then 13th Century man could have dismissed the Industrial Revolution never coming to pass. That's why comments such as the one you made are silly.

Quote:

We’ve not got the means or the incentives or the market access on our own. Nor will we have. For a classic example of how industry really works look no further than Dyson.

I disagree with you here. If you have a product and other people want it, they will buy it. As for market access, you create market access it's not something that is a given either way and there is no reason to believe that countries like Brazil, India and China would not open their markets up to a product if they wanted it, especially as they are not bound by the stupid rules the EU imposes on it's member states.
B&Q are a good example in China.

Quote:

We can’t afford to make tax cuts without the corresponding cuts in the provision of “benefits” causing civil unrest. The government that follows this dreadful disastrous lot of incompetent fools and charlatans are going to have a very narrow path to walk as they do what is going to have to be done to redress the damage that has been done.

Smashing the quango's that suck tax payers money up for rubbish would save us a lot for a start. There are many many areas that can be cut back without effecting somebodies ability to live that won't be missed, yet are funded by this government.

Scraping the Income tax and Corporate tax would be a massive boost to the economy, as the Adam Smith institute reported, if public spending had remained at 1997 levels then we could have scrapped Income Tax, Corporate tax and Inheritence tax.
The money people aren't paying to the government at the very least could be used to pay off some of the personal debt burden many people in this country are saddled with.
Taxes I believe should be raised through the Sales Tax method promoted by the Fair Tax group in the US. I believe the UK Libertarian party supports scrapping many of the above within their first year of office should they be voted in.
The abolition of corporate tax would see a massive inward investment into this country by many international corporations for very obvious reasons.

Ea of dune

British-Conservatism · 13-05-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

No, you said public debt. The two are not the same thing.

Consumer Debt is at just over £1 trillion here a level we can manage.
America it's about ten times that level.

Now for -

Europe Countries including France, Ireland, and Spain have a consumer credit market growing faster than the UK's - and last month Britons actually paid off some £399 million of their collective credit card debt.

Currently, the fastest-growing Western European credit markets are Turkey and Greece.

Consumer debt is sweeping Europe in fact the EU parliament has passed a resolution to aid this in happening recently.

British-Conservatism · 13-05-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ea of Dune

You are quoting me out of context here. You suggested we would never be able to regain our export base, this is thoroughly unprovable and has nothing to do with business plans or models. You can't say that we won't be in an export situation that rivals the Industrial Revolution in 100 years anymore then 13th Century man could have dismissed the Industrial Revolution never coming to pass. That's why comments such as the one you made are silly.

I disagree with you here. If you have a product and other people want it, they will buy it. As for market access, you create market access it's not something that is a given either way and there is no reason to believe that countries like Brazil, India and China would not open their markets up to a product if they wanted it, especially as they are not bound by the stupid rules the EU imposes on it's member states.
B&Q are a good example in China.

Smashing the quango's that suck tax payers money up for rubbish would save us a lot for a start. There are many many areas that can be cut back without effecting somebodies ability to live that won't be missed, yet are funded by this government.

Scraping the Income tax and Corporate tax would be a massive boost to the economy, as the Adam Smith institute reported, if public spending had remained at 1997 levels then we could have scrapped Income Tax, Corporate tax and Inheritence tax.
The money people aren't paying to the government at the very least could be used to pay off some of the personal debt burden many people in this country are saddled with.
Taxes I believe should be raised through the Sales Tax method promoted by the Fair Tax group in the US. I believe the UK Libertarian party supports scrapping many of the above within their first year of office should they be voted in.
The abolition of corporate tax would see a massive inward investment into this country by many international corporations for very obvious reasons.

Ea of dune

I dont think we should scrap these taxes till we have paid off national debt and built up our national stock holdings.

Ea of Dune · 13-05-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

I dont think we should scrap these taxes till we have paid off national debt and built up our national stock holdings.

The national debt would be paid off through a % of the sales tax being ring fenced towards it. The benefit of the Sales Tax at say 22% - 23% means that those from abroad spending here would be contributing more to it then they currently do. The removing of Corporate tax and thus the investment that would follow would undoubtably bring a large number of CEO's and skilled business owners (who should be issued investors work permits in my opinion) would bring their wealth into the country, especially as there would be no tax on their money they brought into the country.
Rich folks will be spending more money on luxury cars and what have you helping to fuel the economy in my opinion.

Ea of dune

British-Conservatism · 13-05-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ea of Dune

The national debt would be paid off through a % of the sales tax being ring fenced towards it. The benefit of the Sales Tax at say 22% - 23% means that those from abroad spending here would be contributing more to it then they currently do. The removing of Corporate tax and thus the investment that would follow would undoubtably bring a large number of CEO's and skilled business owners (who should be issued investors work permits in my opinion) would bring their wealth into the country, especially as there would be no tax on their money they brought into the country.
Rich folks will be spending more money on luxury cars and what have you helping to fuel the economy in my opinion.

Ea of dune

Rich foreigners who wont be paying any income tax while the workers still pay a huge sales tax.

Ea of Dune · 13-05-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Rich foreigners who wont be paying any income tax while the workers still pay a huge sales tax.

The Fair Tax system involves a prebate. All citizens (thus not rich foreigners) would get a prebate each month, this would make up for the fact that they had to pay tax on the basics. As for huge sales tax, the systems includes that VAT would abolished. Also the amount of money companies currently spend on trying to avoid tax, and also making sure employees have paid tax, coupled with our huge Inland Revenue service would disapear, thus meaning the cost of products would actually go down. Combined with the rise in sales tax (by 4.5%), would actually lead us to a situation where prices where about the same.
People would also have more money to spend on goods, but it would also allow workers to save more without being penalised by being taxed on interest.
So the worker would be better off at the end of the day.

Ea of dune

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