Smidgey

What are you talking about.

Liberalism existed long before libertarianism was even though of. Liberalism was, in a sense, the old version of the modern libertarian (take Bastiat, the earlier Mill, Smith (apart from perhaps book five) and Locke (for the most part) as examples.

Liberalism turned into socialism - c.f. Mill. Libertarianism was created much later, as a new name for those who could no longer call themselves liberals (although some still tried to cling onto it, such as Friedman). I would be happy to call myself a liberal, but nobody would understand what I meant.

But hell, even if you are right, at least you've been proactive in your choice of political party. Rather than start off with libertarianism and then descend into liberalism and so on. You've jumped right in the deep end and started with BNP socialism.

P.S. How does my own personal story of becoming a libertarian from being a left-wing liberal fit into your neat little picture of political ideologies?

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Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state wants to live at the expense of everyone.

When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will.

-Frederic Bastiat

mkpdavies

They weren't Libertarians, they were crooks.

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http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/
http://lpuk.org

My ignore list

Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

British-Conservatism

When I refer to Libertarianism in this context I mean Classical Liberalism which evolved into New Liberalism (Social Liberalism) at the start of the last century under Asquith.
The reason for this was political survival.
Saving MP's jobs and wages.

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British-Conservatism

This is what you will have to guard against in your movement because it will happen here too if you gain any success.

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Smidgey

Then you have a poor grasp of what libertarianism is. I could count all the libertarian MPs this country has ever had on one hand. Furthermore, your argument stinks - consider Mill again. He stood for parliament and won, he was then voted out for trying to give women the vote. At least he was principled.

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Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state wants to live at the expense of everyone.

When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will.

-Frederic Bastiat

Smidgey

There are morons in every movement. This is not unique to libertarianism.

__________________
Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state wants to live at the expense of everyone.

When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will.

-Frederic Bastiat

The Bear

Isn’t the bottom line that anyone who is fixated with a single issue or a single obsession or a single objective at a marked disadvantage?

That every individual and especially every politician should hold views that are on a located on the continuum that exists between the two extremes regarding any issue?

That those who do not accept this position are actually not just at a disadvantage but actually probably to at least some degree psychotic?

After all, there are very very few absolute black’s or absolute white’s in nature, and even then what looks like white in one ambient light doesn’t in another.

In my own case I loath Islam with a passion, but even so I do see that it has a place in some societies, just not much of a place in ours!

So it surely is with ideologies such as libertarianism, socialism, capitalism, in fact all the “isms” that make up all the ideologies.

There is no single “ism” that is perfect and just as it is said that if you ever find the perfect church, don’t join it, so if you ever find the perfect “ism” don’t commit fully to it. Instead just take the best out of it to use in the best way that you can.

Thoughts?

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Signature removed because it wound me up every time I read it!

British-Conservatism

Mill lost his seat because he was an anti-British traitor who wanted Governor Eyre the crusher of the Jamaican rebelion jailed.

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British-Conservatism

The point is principles are harder to maintain your movement than in mine because of your ideological stance.

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Smidgey

Another one of the reasons yes.

That made him a patriot and it is a shame people couldn't (and can't) see it.

I get the feeling you probably don't like him because of what he said about conservatives.

Governor Eyre was a murdering ass with no sense of justice whatsoever. Whether the rebels were right or wrong is a different matter - it does not justify some of the things he did.

__________________
Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state wants to live at the expense of everyone.

When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will.

-Frederic Bastiat