Roland

If this how America perceives the EU it is down right dangerous and we are heading for trouble.

Hartlepool

Roland,I think you'll find that the Communist styled European Union is the one that is heading for trouble,not us in the UK,we are on a mission to get out,and keep our Nuclear deterrent into the bargain.

__________________
Remember to believe nothing we hear,until such time as it'Sofficially denied by Government.
------------------------------
Ignore List....clippo, akria,alex mckee,clippo,akria,antony butcher,clippo,akria,eastenders,the bbc,emmerdale,corra,tesco,mandelson,prescott,blear s,scots in general,des brown and his dad,gordon,tessa jowel,jock reid,blunket,charlie clarke,portillo,polly toyboy,camoron,both milliband commies,sooty darling,man 'o straw,bliar and his bint,

The Bear

The principle trouble from the EU is trouble for the USA.

The movements that are taking place in the global economy that is wrong footing the USA results from the years of allowing a huge trade deficit to result in the build up of massive foreign debt, and what is now following on from that.

The change in the energy markets with oil increasingly being traded in Euro’s as opposed to dollars, is another and probably the greatest cause for concern for the USA government.

For decades the US dollar has been the only currency in which oil could be traded and that has been responsible for the entirely inappropriate exchange rate of the US dollar leading to the Americans being able to enjoy a standard of living way out of line with that which the real value of their currency should justify.

The USA economy had to be bailed out from the dreadful position it was in during the early 70’s following years of screwed up financial mismanagement. This was achieved by a Faustian deal with the Saudi royal family.

In this deal the Saudi’s would in their position of power within OPEC enforce the dollar as THE currency for all oil deals with the oil producing nations, and the USA in turn would underwrite the Saudi royal family’s position in Arabia with military aid and support.

Had that deal not been done the USA would have started its decline way back then and not recently as it is doing.

(Precisely what that would have done to world history, especially the future of the USSR, is anybodies guess but that’s water under the bridge.)

Today the USA is on the way of all Empires, and is collapsing from the rot at its core. The existence of the EU is facilitating that collapse and the USA government, especially the treasury are well aware of it and don’t like it one little bit.

There’s nothing they can do about it though.

The cause of the demise of the USA is complex and far reaching and includes the actions and sentiment of a whole lot of people in the world who simply detest the USA and the hegemony it has practiced over the years.

There’s also a whole lot of people whop hate the USA for other reasons, many of whom hate as well and for similar reasons, and those are the people that we must be on our guard against but that’s a related issue.

As for the USA and its pronouncements about how awful the EU is, that’s mostly rhetoric, misinformation, propaganda, spin, and a whole lot more besides.

Propaganda, spin and misinformation broadcast in an attempt to badmouth what is , if not actually one of the causes of their demise, at least a thing that is aiding it.

Why?

Simple.

in the hope of creating internal conflict within the EU and so weakening its perceived position by others in the hope that the influence of the EU will be lessened as a result.

Don't be taken in.

.

__________________
Signature removed because it wound me up every time I read it!

Hartlepool

How about some spinning of what you posted above Bear,and see if it still makes sense,just for the damned hell of it eh?

"Today the EU is on the way of all Empires, and is collapsing from the rot at its core,the existence of the USA is facilitating that collapse and the EU government,especially the treasury are well aware of it,and don't like it one little bit.

There's nothing they can do about it though.

The cause of the demise of the EU is complex though is far reaching and includes the actions and sentiment of a whole lot of people in the world who simply detest the EU and the hedgemony it has practiced over the years.

There's also a whole lot of people who hate the EU for other reasons,many of whom hate as well and for similar reasons,and those are the people we must be on our guard against but thats a related issue.

As for the EU and its pronouncements about how awfull the USA is,thats mostly rhetoric,misinformation,propaganda,spin and a whole lot more besides.

Propaganda,spin and misinformation broadcast in an attempt to badmouth what is,if not actually one of the causes of their demise,at leaste a thing that is aiding it.

Why?

Simple.

in the hope of creating internal conflict within the USA and so weakening its percieved position by others in the hope that the influence of the USA will be lessened as a result.

Don't be taken in.


Hartlepool says,hows that for spinning it?

__________________
Remember to believe nothing we hear,until such time as it'Sofficially denied by Government.
------------------------------
Ignore List....clippo, akria,alex mckee,clippo,akria,antony butcher,clippo,akria,eastenders,the bbc,emmerdale,corra,tesco,mandelson,prescott,blear s,scots in general,des brown and his dad,gordon,tessa jowel,jock reid,blunket,charlie clarke,portillo,polly toyboy,camoron,both milliband commies,sooty darling,man 'o straw,bliar and his bint,

The Bear

There’s no doubt that there’s misinformation in the public domain on both sides and there’s equally do doubt that there’s things being kept under wraps. Such is the nature of politics.

All I would point out in defence of my views is the following.

There’s nothing substantial that the USA is or can do that will significantly affect the continued growth and development of the EU other than to attempt to cause and stoke dissent and capitalise on any that it does.

The same is not true of the USA as probably THE big issue is the place of the US $ as the worlds global currency. it is that more than anything that has let the USA move from where it was in the 70’s through to where it rose to, and that the changes in the role of the $ that is steering the uS down the slippery slope that it is on.

The same is not true of the Euro in the case of Europe.

As regards the EU and hegemony, so far the EU has not engaged in hegemony on a global level, and is not likely to, that being a role that China will probably assume given the way that things are panning out.

Do so many people hate the EU for the same reasons that a vast number of people hate the EU? Actually I very much doubt such is the case.

There is no question that there are nationalist movements within states of Europe that resent, fear, and intensely dislike the prospect of their countries becoming states in a United States of Europe and deeply resent the loss of sovereignty and self determination that will result.

There’s also probably the majority of the population of Britain who feel that way and with good reason seeing that it has never been admitted much less communicated just what a dreadful mess Britain is in following so many years of government ranging from weak and ineffective to downright blooming awful such as this present lot.

In the case of Britain there is the added factor of our being the rump of what was a great empire as well as an island nation, a thing that will shape the mindset of the people who live in Britain.

Unfortunately the present global situation is not conducive to Britain ever being able to go it alone especially when the disastrous financial situation New Labour have led the country into, a situation made even worse by the dual disasters of uncontrolled immigration and the promotion of multiculturalism.

Is the EU collapsing? I see no signs of collapse though I do see that there are a couple of states, especially Spain that are going to have to face up to some hard facts of economic life as the economy and standard of living of the Spanish comes more into line with the performance of Spain as a region.

I do wonder how much worse the situation would be if Spain was NOT in the EU, certainly Spain has benefited by membership in the past now the global events are kicking in some parts of Europe will fare better than others, Spain will not be one of them. What IS relevant to this is that the EU will be able to support the regions that take the knocks and reduce the damage that they would suffer if they were on their own. Such is the nature of federated states.

All in all the points you make are worthwhile to be made if for no other reason than to undertake a reality check.

Likewise the replacement of “USA” with “EU” is a worthwhile exercise and for the same reason, but in my opinion the fundamental differences between the USA and the EU mean that such a swap results in a picture that doesn’t line up with reality.


(BTW, It's nice to be able to debate hard issues without being personal. A shame others can't do the same eh?)

__________________
Signature removed because it wound me up every time I read it!

TannyD

Like who exactly? Yes, it is nice to have a civilised debate without things turning personal and quite nasty...,

__________________
TannyD, like Sunny D only better!!

Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

http://gloucesterr.myminicity.com

The Bear

You're not on my "little list"!

__________________
Signature removed because it wound me up every time I read it!

TannyD

I wouldn't be bothered if I was...You have a little list? Awww, how cute!!
*tickles little list*

__________________
TannyD, like Sunny D only better!!

Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

http://gloucesterr.myminicity.com

Millennium3

It is good to see the eurosceptic view of the EU stated so categorically by some part of the MSM - even if it is from the USA.

BonnieDundee

Meh, the EU is bad but we sure as hell should not let ourselves be bullied by the Americans. I hope the USA splits up soon.

__________________
"In my opinion, the least bad tax is the property tax on the unimproved value of land, the Henry George argument..."
Milton Friedman

People do not argue with the teachings of Henry George they simply do not know it.... He who becomes acquainted with it cannot but agree.
Count Leo Tolstoy (1828-1910)

Leopold Kohr.