Electric death made in China

HighlandFP · 24-03-2008, 10:05 PM

I expect the children who make the bulbs wont cost more than "tuppence a day"

Bear you are not just a pretty face. I have taken my coooncil installed smoke alarm oot. I read that they are full of depleated uranium or somesuch....
Advice?

youcanhandlethetruth · 25-03-2008, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Besoeker

OK.
I questioned whether new power stations would be required for the production of CFLs and you asked for supporting information on why I should have raised that question/doubt. Fair enough.
My first thought, an obvious one I suppose, was that, if the CFL consumes less energy in use than the bulb it replaces, that reduction should be set against the energy used to produce it. That’s why I asked the question.

Anyway, a little bit of arithmetic, some inferred data, and a little bit of qualified assumption.
I can buy a CFL for £2.00 from a retailer.
That price pays for production and the margin made by every link in the chain that gets it from the manufacturer to the retailer. The original manufacturer might get £1.00. That includes any profit he might make, cost of materials, cost of labour, cost of manufacturing plant – and energy. All out of £1. A reasonable assumption would be that the energy cost for production is less than £0.50 and possibly very much less than that. At most efficient UK production* 50p is the production cost for about 20 kWh.

Looking at the other side of the picture…
Compared to a conventional 60W tungsten filament lamp an equivalent CFL will save about 47W. Over a projected life expectancy of around 10,000 hours that amounts to 470 kWh. Compared to the cost of 20 kW h production.

Even if the cost of electrical production in China was just one tenth of that in UK CFL production would consume much less energy than they save in operation.

In short, CFL production wouldn’t need more power stations.

*Based on BWEA figures.

"cost of electrical production in China was just one tenth of that in UK CFL production would consume much less energy than they save in operation."

Well, as I've little way of checking your calculations, I'll give you the benefit of doubt on that one.

But it doesn't change my firm belief/the fact that co2 emissions have absolutely nothing to do with man made global warming - in short it doesn't matter - it's reactionary environmentalism to a non existent problem and political agenda, not real environmentalism that saves the earth.

Sorry if that's hard to believe but it's the truth.

The Bear · 25-03-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighlandFP

I expect the children who make the bulbs wont cost more than "tuppence a day"

Bear you are not just a pretty face. I have taken my coooncil installed smoke alarm oot. I read that they are full of depleated uranium or somesuch....
Advice?

For gawds sake put it back!

The domestic smoke detectors are absolutely safe as long as you don’t take the detector apart, that’s usually a thing about the size of a cotton reel with slots in it and a yellow radiation sticker on it and to take that apart would need some force and deliberate action.

Even then you would need to eat the blo*dy thing, a tiny speck of gery matter smaller than a pin head, and even then you would have to live about a hunderd years to be certain of coming to harm.

The detector works by having a tiny quantity of an alpha emitter, in all cases that I am aware of it’s the oxide of Americium-241, a by-product of Pu decay, and I gram of the stuff provides enough material for about 5-6 THOUSAND smoke detectors What’s more it’s got a very long half life and so it’s not going to wear out.

The way it works is the alpha radiation forms the electrical circuit which, because alpha radiation can be shielded by even a piece of tissue paper (or in this case smoke particles) the presence of smoke has the effect of a switch being opened which is what sets the rest of the circuitry going and the alarm to be sounded.

Because the whole radiation path is contained within a shielded component with a few holes to let the air circulate through it and because the source is exceedingly stable there is zero radiation detectable outside of the thing and consequently it is absolutely safe.

Put it back up, mate, and make sure the batteries are kept up to date!

The Bear · 25-03-2008, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Besoeker

The input for the CFLs is just one example of equipment that takes non-sinusoidal current from the supply. Computers, televisions, anything using SMPS does similar things.
The result is that they pollute the electrical supply.
You then need to add equipment to mitigate the effects.
Progress is rarely without some pain.

Oh ain't THAT the truth!

I remember some years ago a sub station in a building in Manchester "doing a hooley" simply because of the huge nuber of switch mode power supplies and flo lights in use had screwed the power facter to hell and beyond.

Besoeker · 25-03-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bear

Oh ain't THAT the truth!

I remember some years ago a sub station in a building in Manchester "doing a hooley" simply because of the huge nuber of switch mode power supplies and flo lights in use had screwed the power facter to hell and beyond.

It's primarily a harmonics problem.
Power factor comes in two flavours - displacement and distortion.
Displacement is usually the lagging PF of conventional equipment like electric motors. Generally, it can be fixed simply with power factor correction (PFC) capacitors.
The distortion produced by switch mode power supplies and other power electronics is a different ball game and not amenable to a simple PFC fix. There is no "one size fits all" solution.
And it's a growing problem.

Besoeker · 25-03-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

"cost of electrical production in China was just one tenth of that in UK CFL production would consume much less energy than they save in operation."

Well, as I've little way of checking your calculations, I'll give you the benefit of doubt on that one.

I should have thought that there was little room for doubt. Surely you can see that it can't take half a Megawatt for an hout to produce one CFL?

Quote:

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

But it doesn't change my firm belief/the fact that co2 emissions have absolutely nothing to do with man made global warming.

Well, that's your opinion/belief.
It may or may not be correct.

youcanhandlethetruth · 25-03-2008, 09:38 PM

Yes it is my opinion - but it's also the opinion of the club of rome ! (in my opinion)

The Bear · 26-03-2008, 08:00 AM

Assertion.

That a state of equilibrium exists wherein the level of atmospheric CO2 and Methane determines the amount of heat energy gained from the sun in any giver time period.

Given.

That the global mean temperature determines the growth of the biosphere and that the biosphere activity is inversely proportional to the level of atmospheric CO2 and Methane then external manipulation of the biosphere, the proportion of atmospheric CO2, and / or Methane will have a knock on effect on the mean global temperature.

Summary

It is therefore not beyond the wit of the most cerebrally challenged to grasp that if mankind is freeing CO2 as a result of releasing it from where it had become fixed in fossil form and at the same time reducing the biomass as a result of deforestation and pollution that the **** will hit the fan and it is doing big time.

Comment

The stories being put about to deny this in virtually all cases if the “me too – buy my book” brigade are ignored, stem from US politicians who are terrified of the effect on the US lifestyle and what will follow if the DO the right thing or the few who are so deeply involved in oil that they leave a stinking trail wherever they go or those in their pay or influence.

24-03-2008, 10:05 PM	#21 (permalink)
HighlandFP Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ross-shire Highlands SCOTLAND Posts: 561 Party: None	I expect the children who make the bulbs wont cost more than "tuppence a day" Bear you are not just a pretty face. I have taken my coooncil installed smoke alarm oot. I read that they are full of depleated uranium or somesuch.... Advice? __________________ WARNING: By reading or downloading this post you may be committing an offence under some or all of these Terrorism Acts. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/securit...m-and-the-law/ EU = Ein Volk ~ Ein Reich.

25-03-2008, 09:38 PM	#27 (permalink)
youcanhandlethetruth Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,540	Yes it is my opinion - but it's also the opinion of the club of rome ! (in my opinion) __________________ Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed. cointelpro/halfwits: Akria,Clippo,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist,MikeUK

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26-03-2008, 08:00 AM	#28 (permalink)
The Bear Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: East Anglia Posts: 1,692	Assertion. That a state of equilibrium exists wherein the level of atmospheric CO2 and Methane determines the amount of heat energy gained from the sun in any giver time period. Given. That the global mean temperature determines the growth of the biosphere and that the biosphere activity is inversely proportional to the level of atmospheric CO2 and Methane then external manipulation of the biosphere, the proportion of atmospheric CO2, and / or Methane will have a knock on effect on the mean global temperature. Summary It is therefore not beyond the wit of the most cerebrally challenged to grasp that if mankind is freeing CO2 as a result of releasing it from where it had become fixed in fossil form and at the same time reducing the biomass as a result of deforestation and pollution that the ** will hit the fan and it is doing big time. Comment** The stories being put about to deny this in virtually all cases if the “me too – buy my book” brigade are ignored, stem from US politicians who are terrified of the effect on the US lifestyle and what will follow if the DO the right thing or the few who are so deeply involved in oil that they leave a stinking trail wherever they go or those in their pay or influence.