Olympic Flame

I said pages ago I had no disillusionment about China. Certain ideas of control and stability in a vast populous developing nation is not in line with many libertarians here. It is not about pointing fingers at the time being but what free Tibet is really about. China has promoted special privileges in many aspects for minority population as well as affirmative quota for minority in congress. There are real actions dedicated to the regional development that you would not find in many inland ethnically Han dominated provinces to the extent by the standard of conservatives in the west might euphemically call it as reverse discrimination. Certainly it considers separatism against state unity as "crossing the sensitive line" the control is much more relaxed in the more liberal and open modern China under interntaional scrutiny.
Is it time to put Free Tibet Movement under such scrutiny as well?

crac

In my view the West should not be endorsing China through allowing it to stage the Olympic games.

The flame should be about freedom of the human spirit, and i fear it will be for ever soiled by it's association with cruel and repressive government activities, who's list of atrocities goes on and on .

No word of explanation or excuse can ever be accepted from the perpetrators of these acts.

Cruelty, cruelty, and yet more cruelty on everyone who opposes them, be it their own students, or those who harmlessly practice their religion .

Listening to their ******** excuses about this or that blah blah blah ,,,''''they threaten out internal security,,,,,''''' blah blah blah, Dictators have been using that excuse for how long???????????

Look, yes, we they can't deal with any kind of diagreement dissent or dialogue on anything. Because they arn't civilised really, Do they then get to play in the club of civilised nations and do we really have to keep on pretending to agree with their stilted minds and the fact they are unrepentant about the fact also?????

Zak64

Well put! IMO the biggest mistake the West recently made with China was allowing her into the World Trade Organisation. And for that I blame Bill Clinton. Had he stood up and said "No trade for China - till China frees Tibet!" then that may well have happened. The Chinese would have looked at the profit/loss account of their illegal occupation, and if the sums weren't in their favour they'd have found some face saving way of ending their unlawful occupation.

But doubtless Clinton also looked at the profit/loss side of the deal and found in the USAs favour. Doubtless he was all too ready to be taken in a few smug platitudes from the Chinese - rather than standing up for human rights.

I doubt I will see the end of Chinas occupation of Tibet in my lifetime. That's realpolitic!

__________________
"There's no way to rule innocent men.
The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.
One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."~ Ayn Rand.

The Bear

Tibet is a province of greater China, as it should be.

End of story.

HighlandFP

Zak64 says, "Had the Dali Lama taken a leaf out of the IRAs book we could be looking at a free Tibet right now. It's a pity he did not. "

Zak are you 64 or what? Have you read anything about the IRA?

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crac

They are Buddists you know, they don't do that sort of thing.

Good for them.

They are certainly giving the Chinese a headache right now but their only hope is to get the total apathy of the world powers on their side about Tibet.

Someone needs to say ''Tibet is not yours nor ever was.''

''Get your grubby hands off it China.''

Zak64

I haven't read a huge amount about the IRA, but did work in Northern Ireland during the troubles. I have read considerably more on Tibet.

I could equally have said "Pity he didn't take a leaf out of ETAs book", same difference. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. The point I was making, and probably didn't make clearly enough, was that had Tibetan resistance to the Chinese invasion been more organised and violent in the early years of the invasion the Chinese could probably have been driven out.

The invasion, such as it was at that time, began in 1947 with 'advisors' sent from China to 'help' the peasants. One of the ways they 'helped' the peasants was to start building a network of roads. When invasion proper came the self same network of roads was used by the Chinese military to move troops and supplies about. By 1950 it had taken on the aspects of exactly what it was, a full scale military invasion of a sovereign counry. (Incidently one of the first things the Chinese did was replace the Tibetan currency with the Chinese one, if Tibet was not a sovereign nation, what was it doing issuing it's own currency?). Let us not forget that the Dali Lama was not forced to flee Tibet untill 1959, whan conditions grew too dangerous for him, and the brutal nature of the Chinese occupation had become hideously plain.

If you read accounts of that early invasion period you will find that Chinese oppression of the population waned every time there was strong resistance, only to reassert itself when resistance slackened. Initially the hold of the Chinese was tenuous. Had the Tibetan authorities acted swiftly to throw out the Chinese 'helpers', and organised better resistance the invasion would almost certainly have been foiled.

Unfortunately the Dali Lama at that time was still to young to lead his people properly, and there is no doubt that some advisors in his court had treasonous intentions towards their own country.

__________________
"There's no way to rule innocent men.
The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.
One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."~ Ayn Rand.

Millennium3

The Buddhist monks in Vietnam pored petrol over themselves and set themselves alight - that was the Buddhist form of protest. Although I understand this was not approved of by their seniors.

Zak64

My understanding is that the self immolating monks were protesting about the then leader of Vietnam, who was a catholic, and was giving the buddist monks a hard time.

An interesting link on Tibet's history here:

International Campaign for Tibet: Tibet: History, Politics and Legal Situation: History of Tibet before the Chinese Invasion of 1949

The Tibetans are not the only people that the Chinese government systematicaly oppress.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China 'crushing Muslim Uighurs'

__________________
"There's no way to rule innocent men.
The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.
One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."~ Ayn Rand.

Millennium3

To be able to enforce a law where couples can only have one child indicates a certain capacity to oppress.