Tibet

youcanhandlethetruth · 22-03-2008, 08:14 PM

P.S
Obviously Hartlepool did not "bring up" Satan - like me he was just responding to it.

Olympic Flame · 22-03-2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

"China is the Satan".

At this moment in time,perhaps you're right about that.

You're also right that it has nothing to do with UKIP,but the UK and the rest of the world will always speak out when it suits them politically.

The people who are not in denial regarding the Chinese actions in Tibet will also speak out but not necessarily politically,but probably in outrage at the Chinese governments planned murders that go unpunished.

Don't you forget OF,China is the Satan in all this,just like you said.

Welcome to the Great Inquisition.

Quote:

"THE Chinese authorities had been fearing trouble, but nothing on this scale. An orgy of anti-Chinese rioting convulsed the Tibetan capital, Lhasa, on Friday March 14th, leaving security forces uncertain how to respond. For many hours mobs controlled the streets, burning and looting as they pleased.

The approach of Beijing’s Olympic games in August is seen by many of Lhasa’s residents as an opportunity to put their contempt for Chinese rule on display to the outside world. China’s desire to ensure the games are not marred by calls for boycotts is tying its hands as it considers how to respond.

Your correspondent, the only foreign journalist with official permission to be in Lhasa when the violence erupted, saw crowds hurling chunks of concrete at the numerous small shops run by ethnic Chinese lining the streets of the city’s old Tibetan quarter. They threw them too at those Chinese caught on the streets—a boy on a bicycle, taxis (whose drivers are often Chinese) and even a bus. Most Chinese fled the area as quickly as they could, leaving their shops shuttered.

The mobs, ranging from small groups of youths (some armed with traditional Tibetan swords) to crowds of many dozens, including women and children, rampaged through the narrow alleys of the Tibetan quarter. They battered the shutters of shops, broke in and seized whatever they could, from hunks of meat to gas canisters and clothing. Some goods they carried away—little children could be seen looting a toyshop—but most they heaped in the streets and set alight.

Within a couple of hours, fires were blazing in the streets across much of the city. Some buildings caught fire too. A pall of smoke blanketed Lhasa, obscuring the ancient Potala—the city’s most famous monument, which covers a hillside overlooking the city. It is the traditional winter palace of the Dalai Lama, Tibet’s spiritual leader, who fled into exile in India after an abortive uprising in 1959. Some of the demonstrators shouted slogans like “long live Tibet” and “long live the Dalai Lama”. One group trampled on a Chinese flag in the middle of a main road.

The rioting seemed primarily an eruption of ethnic hatred. Immigrants have been flocking into Lhasa in recent years from the rest of China and now run many of its shops, small businesses and tourist facilities. Tourism is the mainstay of Lhasa’s economy and has been booming in recent years, not least thanks to Tibet’s first railway link with the rest of China, opened two years ago. The visitors are mainly Chinese.

There is big resentment too over sharp increases in the prices of food and consumer goods from the rest of China. Many residents of Lhasa, suspicious of the new train service, which they felt might encourage immigration, had been comforted by what they say were official statements saying the rail link would help bring prices down. But they have kept on rising, as they have in other parts of the country.

Residents had mixed feelings about the violence. Some celebrated by throwing rolls of lavatory paper over wires across the streets, filling them with streamers intended to resemble traditional Tibet scarves. Others appeared aghast at the violence. As your correspondent spoke to a monk in the backroom of a monastery, a teenage boy rushed in and prostrated himself before him. He was a member of China’s ethnic-Han majority, terrified of the mobs outside. The monk helped him to hide.

The violence was fuelled by rumours of killings, beatings and detention of Buddhist monks by security forces in Lhasa this week. Access to the city’s big three monasteries has been blocked by police since the beginning of the week when hundreds of monks staged protests coinciding with the March 10th anniversary of the 1959 revolt. Dozens of them, residents believe, have been arrested. On Friday morning, rumours spread that monks had been shot dead outside the Jokhang temple, the holiest shrine of Tibetan Buddhism in the heart of the Tibetan quarter. A couple of monks outside another temple were said to have been beaten by police.

A handful of riot police with shields and helmets (but no guns visible) patrolled in front of the Jokhang as the riots continued around them, while others stood in lines at the perimeter of the riot-torn area. But for many hours they made no attempt to intervene. After nightfall, fire engines supported by two armoured personnel carriers, moved down the streets putting out the blazes. But the police carrying automatic rifles atop the armoured vehicles did not attempt to deploy on the streets. The occasional bang was heard, but it was difficult to tell whether it was shooting or explosions in the fires.

During the evening, Lhasa television broadcast over and over again, alternately in Tibetan and Chinese, a government statement accusing the “Dalai Lama clique” of being behind the violence by a “small number” of rioters. It called on city residents to support the authorities’ efforts to restore control.

But ensuring stability in Lhasa in the coming months will be an enormous challenge for China as it prepares for the Olympics. Many residents expect a massive deployment of security forces over the weekend and possibly a reintroduction of martial-law type restrictions, as in 1989 during the last serious outbreak of unrest in the city (some say the latest protests have been the biggest since 1959). But officials in Lhasa had been preparing to host growing numbers of foreign tourists and Olympic visitors this year. A long-term visible deployment of troops would be, to say the least, a big embarrassment for the Communist Party.
Tibet | Fire on the roof of the world | Economist.com

Olympic Flame · 22-03-2008, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

P.S
Obviously Hartlepool did not "bring up" Satan - like me he was just responding to it.

Are you sure?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

The Chinese are murdering people in Tibet on a daily basis.

The Chinese have always murdered their opponents in Tibet.

The Chinese are well known murderers of their own people in China and they execute on a daily basis there.

The Chinese have always murdered their opponents in China.

The Chinese are still acting barbaricly today and every day in China and in Tibet,as they have done for over 60 years now.

Do you think the thousands who are marching in London and elsewhere are wrong to do so?

Olympic Flame · 22-03-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

Hear hear Hartlepool !

It's not very difficult to accept either.

Interesting the same people who accuse people of "china bashing" are the same people that bring up "satan" in their posts - maybe they have a personal interest with evil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olympic Flame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

How can it be irrelevant to the Tibet issue when the Chinese murdered many in the streets there as well as elsewhere?

I'm a stalwart in my beliefs for capital punishment,but the continuous daily execution of citizens by the Chinese must be constantly brought to the fore because it is tantamount to daily mass murder.

Are you talking about recent events? Well Im quite sure that there is no mass murder by authority in recent Tibet unrest. Try Wiki.

The law enforcing agency have been exercising restraint and giving a deadline for those who riot to stop and turn themselves in. What has been done is largely riot control as you will see them holding shields against rocking thrown at them as well as stopping people from violence such as stabbing or burning buildings. The Gun shots in first few days were due to the illegal posession fo weapons of the rioters. Only in one circumstances where the Chinese News agency as well as the government confirmed the shooting has taken place in Sichuan province( the riot spread to other neighbouring provinces as well) as they alleged that it was done done the sake of self-defence under the rule of engagement by the riot control police. Try Youtube and other online sources such as guardian.

Ironically the Nepalese and Indian police are the ones chasing the protestors with sticks and some western sources deliberately or accidentally took them as Chinese ones. Perhaps they are trying to please the Chinese side by stopping them from creating too much havoc or the protestor have gone beyond the line accepted in Nepal and India.

There is a common misconception that "protest" in developing nations are the same peaceful and intellectual ones in the developed world such as UK or U.S. If you look at the riots all over the world from sectarian violence in Palestine and Pakistan and ethnic conflict in Kosovo where the UN buildings are violently attacked, it is totally another story. Of course Im not saying peaceful ones dont exist but the large picture is different.

Regarding capital punishment, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Singapore and China have a record of relatively high rate susceptible to criticism from NGOs in which China has the lowest among them. The number sounds "high" in China due to her large population base. Try wiki.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

The Chinese are murdering people in Tibet on a daily basis.

The Chinese have always murdered their opponents in Tibet.

The Chinese are well known murderers of their own people in China and they execute on a daily basis there.

The Chinese have always murdered their opponents in China.

The Chinese are still acting barbaricly today and every day in China and in Tibet,as they have done for over 60 years now.

Do you think the thousands who are marching in London and elsewhere are wrong to do so?

Though Patience is a virtual, I am no saint. Humourous analogy is the cure for excess rhetorical arguments.

Our Media..., and Tibet.

Satan is manufactured in a popular box called TV.

Hartlepool · 22-03-2008, 09:31 PM

Once again,I'm as confused as hell by you and I have no idea what you are talking about this time OF,and while I'm on I want to ask you why you brought Satan into the debate?

Just out of interest of course.

Olympic Flame · 22-03-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

Once again,I'm as confused as hell by you and I have no idea what you are talking about this time OF,and while I'm on I want to ask you why you brought Satan into the debate?

Just out of interest of course.

Just like the great inquisition where we do not need real reasons to go for witch hunting, the political atmosphere now is that we dont need logical analysis to Bash China for Riots in Tibet.

CAUSE-

You Tube

EFFECT-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

The Chinese are murdering people in Tibet on a daily basis.

The Chinese have always murdered their opponents in Tibet.

The Chinese are well known murderers of their own people in China and they execute on a daily basis there.

The Chinese have always murdered their opponents in China.

The Chinese are still acting barbaricly today and every day in China and in Tibet,as they have done for over 60 years now.

Do you think the thousands who are marching in London and elsewhere are wrong to do so?

youcanhandlethetruth · 22-03-2008, 10:55 PM

Oulympic Flame,

You bring up Satan but then have the audacity to say "Are you sure ?" I didn't bring it up.

That show what utter lies you speak.

Olympic Flame · 23-03-2008, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

Oulympic Flame,

You bring up Satan but then have the audacity to say "Are you sure ?" I didn't bring it up.

That show what utter lies you speak.

Well if this is the conclusion of yours after going through this thread then I have nothing to say. All the more it shows that most people should mind our own business rather than making it worst by pretending to know about China and have a god damn given right to point our fingers at other nations.

youcanhandlethetruth · 24-03-2008, 01:06 AM

Good, I'm glad you won't be saying anything else, given the lies, propaganda and rubbish you've already spouted.

Yes let people read carefully through the thread - no dount they'll be amazed with your incredible comments (I say incredible to be kind)

Forgive me for stating the totally obvious - your moral indignation is a last ditch attempt to make people imagine if they speak out against oppression they are "making it worse" when if anything were true, it would be your words of defending tyranny making it worse by trying to make people accept tyranny as "normality".

Just because we have bowed down and supported a brutal dictatorship it doesn't mean Tibet should too.

The Bear · 24-03-2008, 08:14 AM

All I said was this piece of halibut is good enough for Jehova!

22-03-2008, 08:14 PM	#91 (permalink)
youcanhandlethetruth Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,531	P.S Obviously Hartlepool did not "bring up" Satan - like me he was just responding to it. __________________ Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed. cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

22-03-2008, 10:55 PM	#97 (permalink)
youcanhandlethetruth Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,531	Oulympic Flame, You bring up Satan but then have the audacity to say "Are you sure ?" I didn't bring it up. That show what utter lies you speak. __________________ Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed. cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

24-03-2008, 01:06 AM	#99 (permalink)
youcanhandlethetruth Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,531	Good, I'm glad you won't be saying anything else, given the lies, propaganda and rubbish you've already spouted. Yes let people read carefully through the thread - no dount they'll be amazed with your incredible comments (I say incredible to be kind) Forgive me for stating the totally obvious - your moral indignation is a last ditch attempt to make people imagine if they speak out against oppression they are "making it worse" when if anything were true, it would be your words of defending tyranny making it worse by trying to make people accept tyranny as "normality". Just because we have bowed down and supported a brutal dictatorship it doesn't mean Tibet should too. __________________ Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed. cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

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22-03-2008, 09:31 PM	#95 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,814 Party: Popular Democrats	Once again,I'm as confused as hell by you and I have no idea what you are talking about this time OF,and while I'm on I want to ask you why you brought Satan into the debate? Just out of interest of course.

24-03-2008, 08:14 AM	#100 (permalink)
The Bear Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: East Anglia Posts: 2,178	All I said was this piece of halibut is good enough for Jehova!