youcanhandlethetruth

Maybe there's some truth in what you say but then again maybe not...

The mainstream media love to sensationlize these stories whilst ignoring the hard statistics, so people like yourself will get hot under the collar and take your focus off the real enemy.

You shouldn't trust any of these rags that are our daily "news" - they have their agenda of demonizing groups and trying to re-inforce stereotypes across the board, based on the actions of a few.

These newspapers(especially the Daily mail) serve the interests of the establishment - reporting factual news is not part of their agenda, it's about how they want people to take the story - in this case they want to whip up racial hatred.

Your last article from the Luton On Sunday actually refutes you argument as it says:

He even said all the current evidence points towards the attacks NOT being racially motivated because people of all types of ethnic background have been targeted.
DI McCarthy, who took charge of Operation Albany on Monday, said: "In the early stages of the investigation the case was with the race hate crime unit because some of the victims were Afro-Caribbeans.

"But the people who have been attacked the most are a white couple and asians. The attacks have happened across the board."

You don't hear of "white extremists" whenever there's a murder, rape, whatever do you ? Come on !

Don't be so naive PCMadness - you're being played like a fiddle.

Your comment - "where it ends up is up to us"
It not up to us - the government let them in intentionally, and ultimately it should be up to them to stop any civil unrest - but bear in mind governments are often caught provocating attacks in public events like the brick throwing incident.

Stop whipping up racial hatred and try to not to be a sucker - either you're being conned or you're a sick government operative - I'm starting to think the latter actually.

__________________
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cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

Ea of Dune

So if somebody disagrees with you they must be a sick government operative .
Sorry this is a discussion forum, people will not hold the same view as you on a variety of subjects, I don't with a lot of the Unionists being in the Nationalist camp, but it doesn't stop me respecting their point of view. Smearing people by implying they are some sort of cyber agent is pretty sad to be honest.
Considering I have disagreed with you, and a whole host of other people have on some of your points, does that make us all government stooges waiting to take over the forum?
Get a grip for gods sake. It's possible to refute peoples arguments using evidence without resorting to personal attacks.

Ea of dune

youcanhandlethetruth

I didn't say he was at all.

But he might be - can't I say that ? Is that not allowed ?
Other people get away with telling porky pies left right and centre, but I'm not allowed to state what might be the possible truth ?

And I didn't say everyone was a government stooge - of course they're not.
But if you think disinformation doesn't exist you're living in a dreamworld.

You should be grateful to someone like me, who is trying to expose disninformationalists for your benefit - believe it or not, I don't like to see people being conned.
You might be used to being fooled don't expect the rest of us to be.

What is a "personal attack" anyway ?
Trying to discredit someone's character ? It's happened to me plenty of times - I don't throw my toys out the pram, I come back with information and argument - he can do the same.

And I did use argument too despite what you said...

So please stop misquoting me and deal with it.

__________________
Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed.

cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

Ea of Dune

Come on you are pretty much implying it with the above statement aren't you!

Telling porky pies though is hardly the right way to go about stating a point is it? Considering you have posted many comments about how the government are liars, I would suggest dropping to their level was a bad idea wouldn't you?

No and I didn't say you did, what I was asking was if somebody disagrees with you does that make them a government stooge, obviously no, but what criteria makes you decide if they are out of interest?

Nobody likes being fooled, however I think you'll find myself and many others on this forum are very well read (including the material you post up here). Just because we don't agree with you does not mean we are "being fooled".
It's possible for people to digest the same facts and come out with different conclusions based upon said data after all.

So because it has happened to you that makes it acceptable? I don't think it does personally, so try not to indulge in it myself.

Accusing somebody of stirring up racial hatred etc. sounds just like a Nu-Lab style personal attack. Thanks to the PC multi-cultural society we live in even commenting on issues of race these days is seen as a crime in itself...

Ea of dune

PCMadness

I did think twice about using those links but what is happening on the ground in predominantly asian areas is of great concern. Hard stats you say....such as? You know reported crime is much different to actual crime. If you don't get a crime number there was no crime.

Couldn't these be religiously motivated attacks???? If you don't think so, please state why?

You accuse me of being racist for talking about a problem that will eventually concern us all. I am not whipping up racial hatred, that is a cheap shot. It is nothing to do with race and you know it. People use that convenient term when they do not wish to face the inconvenient truth...

Look, attacks of this nature have been swept under the carpet and ignored for far too long by the MSM. The BBC are the worst offenders. It does not mean it isn't happening. I can remember there have been attacks in predominantly asian areas of Sheffield when white boys have strayed, riots when the police 'dared' to arrest such attackers.

A certain blogger is being sought for arrest for speaking the truth about what is going on in Luton. Supposedly inciting religious hatred. The government want to silence him, because they know that the truth in the public domain will spark an uprising by the people who are affected or concerned by this. In fact, since this story broke several weeks ago there have been miraculous increase in drug related arrests, because the people involved were named on his blog.....every single one of them 'asian'......supposedly proud of their religion and culture. Was this to try to save face to counter the popular belief that the police were sitting on their hands allowing this to go on?

All I am saying is to me a comon theme is developing here when there are concentrations of a certain religious group and this is happening across the whole of Europe, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, France, Germany are just a few I care to mention but it is far more prevalent than you appear willing to accept, or maybe you just don't know.

You think I'm being played like a fiddle....You think I'm crying wolf. The wolf is there for all to see in a really **** disguise. If fact it's been there for so long it's now being ignored by the rest of the sheeple. What happens next may not be pretty.

History will repeat itself if we do not learn from it. Why people refuse to think that it could possibly happen in a western country is beyond me.

I have seen some gruesome things in my quest to understand what the agenda is for the islamists across the world. I have seen a man beheaded, an image I never wish to see again, it affected me deeply. Sometimes you just have to see with your own eyes what innocent people have gone through at the hands of Islamic barbarism, by men whipped into a frenzy over religious supremacism. The deeper you dig, the more distateful the whole thing becomes. Then you look back in history and realise that they have not changed one iota. This has been going on for 1400 years and will continue while ever we allow it. I will post a few links here I found after a very brief search on atocities committed in the recent bosnia/croatia/serbia conflict and historically in the region.

If you don't wish to have nightmares then I suggest you don't view any of the videos found at these sites. I haven't seen these particular videos but I've already seen enough from other sources to know what they contain. If you don't view the videos at least read some of the textual sources. These are religiously motivated crimes condoned by a hateful ideology wrapped in religion. (Note to moderators - I apologise If I'm not supposed to post content such as this. I couldn't find any rules regarding such content)

VIEW AT YOUR OWN RISK

A MONUMENT TO MUSLIM "TOLERANCE"

srebrenica

This is hardly ancient history. It's likely to kick off in Kosovo again. Don't we see exactly the same staged slaughter and barabrity today in Gaza, Sudan, Somalia, Lebanon, Georgia etc. etc. etc.

We are very selective in what we choose to see aren't we? And we sided with these animals........

Like I said I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't think that I am at this moment in time.

We know who you are and where you live Government operative???? Will you stop spouting that drivel! What's your definition of a government operative??? ..... someone who doesn't buy into your conspiracy claptrap and actually has an opinion of their own.

I'm not political at all. I'm not a member of any party. But I am not afraid to speak my mind on issues that have been suppressed by the government and the media for far too long. Apparently that makes me racist

I have thankfully been away from all the social conditioning that has been rammed down your throats in the UK for several years and living in a society where you can speak your mind without being accused by liberal hand wringers of being racist and bigotted. However, I am on my way back to blighty and will not be dictated to by social marxists about what I can and cannot say.

I expect I'll be arrested within weeks......

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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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youcanhandlethetruth

PC Madness,

Firstly I concede you've convinced me you're not a government op - you're far too well meaning and honest. I actually being "tongue in cheek" more than anything.
Not that they don't exist but that's another matter.

Secondly I'm not saying you're racist at all, but in a way(the same as the media do with news coverage), you may be whipping up racial hatred indirectly for those that know no better, without even realizing or meaning to do it.

Please let me explain.....

Look at it this way - before 9/11, 7/7 how many stories were there in the press about the muslim's and their threat ? Not many I'm sure.

Now maybe I have underestimated what the problems are in Britain right now, but my point is(and sorry if I'm repeating myself) that it is often grossly accentuated through the press.

Surely you have heard of the term "newsworthy" ?

What do you think the effect would be if they showed purely e.g. "black" crime on the television 24/7 ? Obviously there would be a very strong anti-black feeling wouldn't there ?

If they constantly reported on the people who played video games and committed crime there would be a public outcry for video games to be banned - I'm sure you get my point - 95% of these news articles are media propaganda !

So in a way the violence and problems that are caused by the media itself(as it intends to do).
It becomes a "self fulfilling prophecy".

Now I know you have watched some of these terrible acts, and of course I don't condone them at all, but I do worry that you are not keeping the right balance.

For instance you say
"Couldn't these be religiously motivated attacks???? If you don't think so, please state why?"

The point is, I'm not saying they aren't because I haven't got a clue.
But are you looking for them to be becasue of a predefined view about who the "bad guys" are ? Could you be ?

You also say "I have seen a man beheaded, an image I never wish to see again, it affected me deeply." - this is what the media want - they wan't good people like you with a conscience to be totally affected and take it personally. Of course it terrible, but believe me, I could post you things just as bad that are happening in Iraq right now, but performed by a totally different group based on a "neo-con" religion.
My point is though - it's not actually what is most bad, it's how you perceive what's most bad (sorry - make sense ?). Unfortunately across the world it's a lot worse than you can possibly imagine and not just about the extremist threat.

Vut there's one thing I'm sure we agree on - the fact that British people are being victimized by the police in the name of "racial discrimination", and personally I think it's absolutely terrible.

And as you say, I fully accept the examples you quote about the Luton Blogger and police favouritism is all true and is totally unjust.
It's exactly what I expected to hear and I'm not suprised at all.

But ask yourself, if that is the policy(and I'm sure you agree it is) then why IS it the policy ?

Doesn't it baffle you ? Why would the police come down on the side of muslim criminals, whilst at the same time, muslims are being targeted in the media as "evil" ?
Doesn't it seem just plain ODD to you ?

You say "I have seen some gruesome things in my quest to understand what the agenda is for the islamists across the world."

I'm sure you have and you probably know a lot more than me about radical islam than me, and I'm not saying it isn't a threat at all, but I've studied this government for years and what I do know for sure is:

a) The government is increasing immigration
b) There was no muslim link in 9/11 and 7/7(believe me there wasn't)
c) The governmment promote "multi-cultutalism" whilst carrying on a "war on terror" agenda aimed at us all (not just the extremists - surely you've read the Terrorism act ?)
d) Policy favours multi-cultural groups whilst British nationals are unfairly vicitimzed.
e) Western governments are funding islamic extremist groups across the world.

So without wanting to make the same point again and again, the government need racial hatred in this country for their own agenda !
Why ?
So they can clamp down on everybody's civil liberties in the name of "security" and "freedom".
You say history is doomed to repeat itself but if you'd watched "terrorstorm" you'd have seen how Hitler burned his own reichstag and blamed it on his enemies. It's exactly the same here.

In fact, as far as Western govts are concerned, they not only commit the terrorist attacks by using these extremists to act on their behalf, but they also fund them in their foreign wars.

Who is funding Al-Quaeda in Iraq ? Who funded the Mujahadeen against the russians ?

You say "This is hardly ancient history. It's likely to kick off in Kosovo again. Don't we see exactly the same staged slaughter and barabrity today in Gaza, Sudan, Somalia, Lebanon, Georgia etc. etc. etc."

Again, who is really supporting and engineering most of the violence in these countries ?
Look at these articles:

Clinton Let Bin Laden Slip Away and Metastasize
The Real Agenda Of The Globl Elite In Somalia
US imperialism behind Kosovo split

Gaza and Lebanon oppressed and attacked by Israel (I could post many links)

Now PCMadness I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the threat you talk about which may be very real, and which I concede I may have underestimated, but you must understand who your ultimate enemy is and where it is all coming from.

Believe me - you, me, the police, the muslims extremists, even Gordon Brown & Bush, we're just the pawns in the game, you've honestly no idea !

Ever heard the phrase "divide and conquer ?" It's exactly what's happening in the UK and around the world today....

I find it quite ironic that we both see the same threat, but there's an element of crossover between us.

If you really want to learn who is ultimately behind any of the threats we face, please please, learn the real truth about who pulls who's strings. You don't even need to give up your old beliefs about Islam, but you will feel a lot more empowered by knowing how it's supported, and the world will start to make a lot more sense than it probably does right now.

Anyway, I didn't mean any offence, I'm just trying really heard to tell you the truth here.

I'm really on your side, believe it or not.....

__________________
Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed.

cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

youcanhandlethetruth

EA of Dune,

I think a lot of the points I've raised in response to PcMadness cover your points.

I take your point and I've apologized to PCMadness, but I don't think you should necessarily assume I was personally attacking him or even calling him racist if I make a statement like that.

I was trying to point out(and I probably did it poorly) that often, people can use the same kind of language that comes straight out of the propaganda handbook without even realizing it.

People assume that I'm coming from (as they say) New Labour Politically correct angle, because they themselves have become aware of the same tactic, so instantly think I am in league with the government "politically correct" agenda.

In fact quite the opposite is true - because I know the government tactics of wanting to divide and conquer people using the race card, I don't want them to resort to play up to it - it's better to acknowledge the problem but rise above it and realize who is ultimately creating the feeling of resentment in this country.

If you read my post to PCMadness, I hope you will see what I mean.

As you say "Thanks to the PC multi-cultural society we live in even commenting on issues of race these days is seen as a crime in itself..."

Exactly - I think you've partly explained my point.

Is it any wonder we're all so defensive ? It's totally ridiculous.

Yes of course bad s*it is going down, but let's look at the bigger picture and not try to get invloved in personal battles between each other - that's the main goal of everything that's happening by design.

Anyway, in answer to your other points/questions,

"what criteria makes you decide if they are(government stooge) out of interest?"

It's easier to find traits of people who defintely aren't - if someone is like PCMadness and is ultimately genuine, honest and doesn't resort to namecalling(like me I suppose !) to make their argument, then I'd say they're definitely not.

What makes it difficult is that a lot of people sound exactly like you would expect one to be, but it doesn't mean they are - they may well be just spouting the same rubbish that they were taught by the propaganda they watched and they firmly believe in it.

If you take for example Akria, Clippo and Besoeker - judging by their global warming rhetoric and spin you would guess they probably are, but again, they may just be totally wrong and misled.

However when you consider both Akria and Besoeker have both claimed they are very ill you have to wonder.... (they're top of my list).

The biggest giveaway I think are people who label themselves anti-euro but never condemn the EU and always defend the government - like Eurosceptic Atlantacist.

And people who always nit-pick but never say anything positive about improving things.

Then you've got well meaning people like Bear, who are quite intelligent in some ways, but trust the governement far too much....

You can say I'm paranoid, but I don't think I am all the time.
You can't say "Oh that would never happen" when all the signs are that there's fake info and misinformation being put out for the sole purpose of doing just that.

But is could just be that they believe what they believe because they're misled.

I know I shouldn't really mention it, but it does make people realize they are defending the ideas of government, so I don't think it's as personal as you think. I'm invariably called a conspiracy theorist !

But yes theoretically you're right - "don't come down to the same level" - but who sets these "politically correct" rules anyway ?

Occasionally you've got to kick people up the ar*e and fight fire with fire......
That's the problem with UKIP - they are so worried about their image and appearing totally "correct" and following "process" I sadly doubt they'll ever get anywhere.

Whatever you think about the BNP(and I don't support their "cultural" ideas), they tell it as they see it and that partly explains their success.

Anyway I take your point -I'll try to ease off (if I can). Not that I don't use reasoned argument too !

__________________
Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed.

cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

PCMadness

I appreciate your reply, but nothing you say here actually negates my points.

Look, I believe you are probably right in that we are all being used for some sort of new world order agenda (neo cons or whatever) and this scaremongering is being used to impose control on the population for the greater good, but don't you think that the Islamists also know this? What I am saying is the powers that be do not actually realise what they are unleashing on the world. They really think they will be able to control the Islamist pawns in this whole charade when they've served their purpose. I am saying that this is a gross miscalculation. I reckon a deal has been done, probably with Saudi Arabia which will spectacularly backfire in time and the western puppets will realise that they have been double crossed as their so called 'partners' turn on them like rabid dogs. As history shows the Arabs have a long long memory and will bide their time until the conditions are favourable. Iraq, 9/11, 7/7, the police, muslim extremism, the media are all serving a purpose.....BUT if we continue down this course then in time the scenario I described may well play out and Islamism will dominate after a long blood soaked conflict.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm looking at it from the other perspective.

Until recent times Islamism has been subdued by vastly superior western technology and highly trained armed forces, this is however no longer the case. Towards the end of the 20th century WE started arming them with state of the art weaponry and expertise, allowing technology transfers to arab states such as Typhoon eurofighter, a world beater. They have the technical knowhow and plan to start production over there before too long. We are giving them the sword that they will drive through our heart. Puppet master or not, a gross miscalculation has taken place and will end in tears.

__________________
Edmund Burke (1729–1797)

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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youcanhandlethetruth

Very interesting comments.

We're certainly moving towards common ground

You say "and this scaremongering is being used to impose control on the population for the greater good, but don't you think that the Islamists also know this?".

Firstly I would never use the term "greater good" - there is nothing good about false flag terrorism at all - in fact that term is normally used by governments to convince it's military to impose tyranny on it's populations - very sick !

You ask "don't you think that the Islamists also know this?".

Difficult to answer because if you take the first Bali bomb or isolated bodily attacks on say the vicar here, they may well think they are doing it for Islam or doing it in a just cause against their "enemy" - so in this way yes, there are some cases.

Having said that you have to be extremely careful with these news reports including eye witness reports that can often be created out of thin air.

Although some are involved in terror and it is undoubtedly wrong you have to wonder how much of it is down to real islamic terrorists.

It's difficult to gauge but if you consider 7/7, 9/11 and the large 2nd bali bomb were not caused so much by islamic terrorists, but they were patsies used by the governement, it makes me think it's very possible their involvement is grossly exagerrated.

Government agencies will often target mentally disturbed individuals to do their dirty work for them or simply just set them up and frame them later.

What I don't get too is that if the terrorism threat is very real from extremists why there haven't been any attacks in Britain since ?

We hear about folied attempts and 7/7, 9/11 but in reality it would be very easy for a terrorist to blow himself up, but it hasn't happened yet - not even in 7/7 and 9/11.

To be honest your theory about miscalulation isn't one that I've really heard in any depth before - it's difficult for me to answer because you probably have looked into it more than me.

My first impression is it would be difficult for them to overcome the weight of western power and intelligence in this country but I could be wrong.

Do you mean an Islamic uprising in this country by hand ?

Or do you mean a world war/military conflict involving Saudi Arabia ?

How do you think it could happen ?

__________________
Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed.

cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist