French far-right leader sentenced

mkpdavies · 08-02-2008, 08:24 PM

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | French far-right leader sentenced

Quote:

French far-right politician Jean-Marie Le Pen has been given a three-month suspended jail term for playing down the Nazi occupation of France.
Le Pen, who was also fined 10,000 euros (£7,400), described the occupation as "not especially inhumane".

The French seem to be further down the route to 1984 than us! This is thoughtcrime at its worst.

Even if the bloke is scum, locking up for an opinion is horrific beyond anything he has ever done.

mkpdavies · 08-02-2008, 08:26 PM

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | French police 'made Nazi salutes'

Quote:

The French interior ministry has suspended three policemen who are alleged to have made Nazi-style salutes in a bar and shouted racist insults.

French Interior Minister Michele Alliot-Marie called it "intolerable" behaviour that "totally contradicts police ethics". The men - in plain clothes and accompanied by two others - allegedly shouted "Sieg Heil!"

I suppose these muppets will be locked up too. Maybe the BNP are right to pretend they aren't Nazis afterall.

youcanhandlethetruth · 08-02-2008, 08:40 PM

Yes indeed, even if he is a total scumbag, he has the right to express his opinion.
Well obviously not.

When the govt decide you can't "think" let alone speak then it's as intolerant as the supossed crime it punishes and shows democracy/freedom has vanished.

Freedom of speech ? Nope - done that already.
Now you can't have your own thoughts/opinions because your government doesn't agree with them.

Roland · 09-02-2008, 01:31 PM

You are free to speak as long as you only speak the correct speech.

Olympic Flame · 09-02-2008, 04:59 PM

Not surprised. Americans had their red scare.
But we should be more understanding towards the complexities of continental Europe's social and political sphere where the worst nightware of human history had taken place.

Mikeuk · 09-02-2008, 05:29 PM

One strand of the PC attitudes which are now infecting this country comes from the stringent anti-Nazi laws of France, Germany and other European countries.

As a child I remember back in the 1960s being puzzled by the lack of swastika decals for my Airfix Messerschmidt fighter kit. The reason was that even then these would have broken the law in Germany.

David Irving's ravings landed him in jail in Austria, which of course had anti-Nazi laws before the Anchluss - imposed by the anti-Nazi Austro-fascists!

There's a long tradition of suppressing freedom in these European countries, and it's coming here.

Vortex · 11-02-2008, 04:24 PM

I wonder if there's a Hindu temple in Berlin yet? If there is, it will no doubt be allowed (or would it) to display one of its symbols which is the swastika. The nazis didn't invent it, its been a Hindu good luck sign for hundreds of years, although I'm not sure what the Hindus term for it is.

I also remember reading some of my father's old Rudyard Kipling books which had the swastika symbol on them, thats when I first learnt of its origins.

Frith · 11-02-2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vortex

I wonder if there's a Hindu temple in Berlin yet? If there is, it will no doubt be allowed (or would it) to display one of its symbols which is the swastika. The nazis didn't invent it, its been a Hindu good luck sign for hundreds of years, although I'm not sure what the Hindus term for it is.

I also remember reading some of my father's old Rudyard Kipling books which had the swastika symbol on them, thats when I first learnt of its origins.

It belongs to the Indo-Europeans as a sun sign and symbol of well being. It has been also been handed down through Germanic and Norse peoples and was a sign carved into monumental stones and used in designs long before Hitler and the nazis misused it to represent "everything that is anti-Semitic". It has no connection to race hatred at all outside of nazi Germany. Unfortunately, the sunwheel has been so badly utilized by neo-nazis and anti-nazi Jewish groups as a "symbol of hate" that those of us who have it in our pre-Christian heritage as a sign of good fortune and the sun have had to abandon it.

Swastika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vortex · 11-02-2008, 04:41 PM

Thanks for the info, interesting. The Nazis of course reused a lot from history, aside from their policies. The black SS uniforms were based on the Roman Praetorian Guards use of black helmet adornments as opposed to the standard red ones. Mussolini resurrected the "roman greeting" (the outstretched arm) again adopted by the Nazis. Additionally the standards and use of eagles are all copied from Rome.

Frith · 11-02-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vortex

Thanks for the info, interesting. The Nazis of course reused a lot from history, aside from their policies. The black SS uniforms were based on the Roman Praetorian Guards use of black helmet adornments as opposed to the standard red ones. Mussolini resurrected the "roman greeting" (the outstretched arm) again adopted by the Nazis. Additionally the standards and use of eagles are all copied from Rome.

That's right and they are very powerful and attractive symbols in their own right. An eagle (bird of the sun in mythology, bird of kings and masculine strength, etc) holds the sun disc in his talons. A fantastic image. Unfortunate in the extreme when this is adopted to be used in a way that makes it impossible to see the iconic value again without people thinking of genocide and world war.

The salute too. Unfortunate. Hitler was very eclectic in his adoption of various symbols and even Christ was for him merely a good icon for anti-Semitic propaganda. He coveted the spear of destiny simply because he wanted occult power. His rune masters created havoc with the ancient Norse writing system. Today runes tend to signify Nazis to the average person. A shame for us Anglo-Norse. We get mistaken for neo Nazis practically daily for simply having some of the same symbols as Nazi Germany. No one is bothered to find out which came first.

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08-02-2008, 08:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
youcanhandlethetruth Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,044	Yes indeed, even if he is a total scumbag, he has the right to express his opinion. Well obviously not. When the govt decide you can't "think" let alone speak then it's as intolerant as the supossed crime it punishes and shows democracy/freedom has vanished. Freedom of speech ? Nope - done that already. Now you can't have your own thoughts/opinions because your government doesn't agree with them.

09-02-2008, 01:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
Roland Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 856	You are free to speak as long as you only speak the correct speech.

09-02-2008, 04:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
Olympic Flame Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 228	Not surprised. Americans had their red scare. But we should be more understanding towards the complexities of continental Europe's social and political sphere where the worst nightware of human history had taken place.

09-02-2008, 05:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mikeuk Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Fareham Posts: 5,517	One strand of the PC attitudes which are now infecting this country comes from the stringent anti-Nazi laws of France, Germany and other European countries. As a child I remember back in the 1960s being puzzled by the lack of swastika decals for my Airfix Messerschmidt fighter kit. The reason was that even then these would have broken the law in Germany. David Irving's ravings landed him in jail in Austria, which of course had anti-Nazi laws before the Anchluss - imposed by the anti-Nazi Austro-fascists! There's a long tradition of suppressing freedom in these European countries, and it's coming here.

11-02-2008, 04:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
Vortex Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 801 Party: BNP	I wonder if there's a Hindu temple in Berlin yet? If there is, it will no doubt be allowed (or would it) to display one of its symbols which is the swastika. The nazis didn't invent it, its been a Hindu good luck sign for hundreds of years, although I'm not sure what the Hindus term for it is. I also remember reading some of my father's old Rudyard Kipling books which had the swastika symbol on them, thats when I first learnt of its origins.

11-02-2008, 04:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
Vortex Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 801 Party: BNP	Thanks for the info, interesting. The Nazis of course reused a lot from history, aside from their policies. The black SS uniforms were based on the Roman Praetorian Guards use of black helmet adornments as opposed to the standard red ones. Mussolini resurrected the "roman greeting" (the outstretched arm) again adopted by the Nazis. Additionally the standards and use of eagles are all copied from Rome.