Liberty Dollar raided by feds

For_England · 19-11-2007, 04:48 PM

Raid target: 'This is war'
Liberty Dollar founder says, 'I intend to win'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 17, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

The government's raid shutting down the Evansville, Ind., offices of Liberty Dollar was a declaration of war, company founder Bernard von NotHaus says. But the confiscation of its stockpiles of gold, silver and coins also was just the "first battle of a long war that I intend to win!"

The company makes and distributes Liberty Dollar coins in various denominations and had announced that it had been closed down by a raid of FBI and U.S. Secret Service officers who confiscated gold, silver, platinum, coins, documents, "everything but the desks and chairs." "For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum, and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that were just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files and computers and froze our bank accounts," von NotHaus wrote in an urgent notification of the situation to supporters. Federal authorities in the U.S. attorney's office in North Carolina, to whom WND was referred when the FBI and Secret Service were questioned, continued to decline to release information about their case, although they admitted the action took place.

But von NotHaus followed up with a detailed explanation of what was going on, and posted on the internet documents supporting his claims. "Make no mistake, the FBI and Secret Service raid on the Liberty Dollar … was a direct assault against the U.S. Constitution and your right to own and use gold and silver in any way you choose," he said. "I personally spoke to FBI agent Andrew Romagnuolo shortly after he and his gang invaded the peaceful home of the Liberty Dollar. He told me that the raid was related to the U.S. Mint's warning and the beginning of a criminal investigation." The Mint, some weeks earlier, had posted on its website a warning that "the use of these gold and silver … 'Liberty Dollar' medallions as circulating money is federal crime." "The United States Mint urges consumers who are considering the purchase or use of these items to be aware that they are not genuine United States Mint bullion coins and they are not legal tender," the Mint said. "'Liberty Dollar' medallions are specifically intended to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with the circulating coinage of the United States," the Mint said. "Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that use of … 'Liberty Dollar' medallions violates [federal law.]"

Von NotHaus challenges that with the posting of correspondence on his website from Edmond C. Moy, director of the U.S. Mint, that his company's paper certificates are "not covered by the Title 18, Section 486 and hence legal." So there was no need for the raid to confiscate "all the gold and silver that backs the paper and digital currencies," he said. "No need, unless the government knew their ... case didn't have a snowball's chance … of winning and needed to expand their case into the never-never land of mail fraud, wire fraud and money laundering as mentioned in the seizure warrant," von NotHaus said. The seizure warrant signed by Magistrate Judge Dennis Howell of Asheville, N.C., noted that the FBI specifically was ordered to confiscate "American Liberty Dollar and/or Hawaii Dala currency and/or precious metals of gold, silver, copper, platinum or other substance and United States currency" because it is "involved in, or traceable to, money laundering … or mail fraud." "I anticipate being arrested on any one or all of these charges," von NotHaus said. But he continued. "I see my arrest and trial as a golden opportunity to win and return our great country to a value based currency. … I believe the Liberty Dollar will win and become one of the great institutions in America. I have devoted the past 10 years to the Liberty Dollar and am willing to risk a few years in federal prison to vindicate it."

He said a class action lawsuit is being assembled for those who have the coins, or had purchased them and were awaiting delivery, and a legal defense fund will be established soon to pursue the case.
Forum participants on the issue didn't hold back on their feelings:

"I'm so tired of people claiming that the U.S. is still the best country in the world, love it or leave it, etc. FREEDOM IS NOT RELALTIVE! You are free or your are a slave. We are slaves. I'm in the 15 percent salve bracket. Which one are you in?" wrote "New Guard." "It is frightening to see our U.S.A. has so many sadly ignorant (or maybe overly self-medicated) readers calling precious metals (like silver and gold) 'fake' and 'good ol' greenbacks' from that privately-held company we call the Federal Reserve who sells debt notes (not backed by gold or silver, but rather fiat currency) as real," added Timothy4USA.
Von NotHaus earlier said since the company has no money, no products and not even any records, he did not know when, if ever, operations would resume. Company information says von NotHaus developed the Liberty Dollar in 1998 as an "inflation-proof" alternative currency to Federal Reserve Notes. The U.S. government, however, historically has taken a dim view of anything monetary that could be perceived as substituting for Federal Reserve Notes.
Authorities have attacked such alternatives as counterfeiting, while supporters of such bartering tools attack the Federal Reserve Notes as fakes. That opinion was shared by Lance Haverkamp, who joined in a forum at the Courier-Press newspaper on the issue.

"Do you realize how stupid it is to say the green stuff is 'real' and the gold & silver is 'fake'… You must work for the government!" he wrote. The organization explained its position like this:

"It's incredible how few people know the facts about the Federal Reserve. The organization chaired by Ben Bernanke is not 'Federal' – it is instead a cabal of private and international banks that does not answer to the United States government. And while there is some precious metal stored in Fort Knox, it doesn't back the debt based 'fiat' U.S. dollar that they issue, because nothing backs it except your trust in the system! Even a casual look at the Fed's history leads one to wonder how an institution that profits mightily from its own policies of victimizing Americans has maintained control over the money of the wealthiest nation on Earth. For those who have made a serious inquiry, the Federal Reserve is shadowed in deceptive origins and fraudulent policies."
Its alternative is a series of coins made of precious metals that can be exchanged for an assigned dollar amount. Over its history, the company has produced the California Bear, Chambersburg Dollar, Evansville Dollar, Hawaii Dala, Peace Dollar and the new Ron Paul Dollar, among others.

The company posts testimonies from those who have used the Liberties. "I am writing this to Liberty Dollar in hopes that it can be used to help with support," wrote a fan, M. Symonds, of Dallas, Texas, who reported using the coinage for $700 expenses on a trip to Austin. "My entire trip was funded with The Liberty Dollar. It used it everywhere I went. … I am here to tell you that the major chains and businesses will accept them. Here is a list of some of the places I used them: Joe's Fina Mart, Placido, Texas; James Texaco, Lolita, Texas; Jack In The Box, Austin, Texas; Chevron, Schulenburg, Texas; McDonalds, Port Lavaca, Texas, Wal-Mart, Port Lavaca, Texas; Reeds Grocery, Odem, Texas…" "The only catch is that as the Liberty Dollar is voluntary, your bank may not accept it for deposit," the company website said. "Of course, this also means that money cannot be siphoned away from your community by big box retailers. The Liberty Dollar is designed to stay in your community of origin for the advantage of the community." For example, a construction worker is paid a $20 Liberty for services, he then takes it to a grocery story for $20 in groceries. The store owner pays a local utility bill with the coin, and that coin then goes to a utility company employee for wages. That employee then pays it back to the construction worker for a remodeling project.

tito · 19-11-2007, 05:34 PM

:|

The old puppeteers had enough of it then?

jgrabham · 19-11-2007, 05:39 PM

Honestly the right to have money which is actually worth something... the audacity.

Smidgey · 19-11-2007, 05:49 PM

They had the whole show of Wednesday's Free Talk Live taken up by this one topic alone (thats three hours).

On Thursday they had Bernard von NotHaus on the show. He said hes going to fight it the whole way.

They have already set up a donation scheme on their website to prepare the legal case.

For_England · 19-11-2007, 05:58 PM

I haven't tuned in to Rush Limbaurgh recently. I wonder what his take is on it.

Smidgey · 19-11-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnpforme

I haven't tuned in to Rush Limbaurgh recently. I wonder what his take is on it.

Oh dear lord. I heard that some people listen to Rush for entertainment. I personally would call that masochism.

For_England · 19-11-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

Oh dear lord. I heard that some people listen to Rush for entertainment. I personally would call that masochism.

LOL, he's a staple among many 'conservatives'. When I'm really bored it's a toss up between the leftist and the neo-con radio - or the conspiracy theorists on AM like Alan Stein lol. I remember one woman on the same radio station as Rush saying 'Global Warming is a scam. I'm an American, and if I want to drive a SUV then no-one's going to stop me'. She needs a good hard slap!

Smidgey · 19-11-2007, 06:55 PM

Ahh. The joys of talk radio

.

Have you seen the clip where a Ron Paul supporter phones up Hannity and tells him that a Republican has received the most troop donations? Hannity looks like he's about to wet himself with joy until the caller tells him it was Ron Paul.

For_England · 19-11-2007, 07:02 PM

I will have to look for that - seeing Hannity's face fall for a change would really be something! Alot of the evangelicals over here love Fox news. Some have their heads screwed on though. I first heard Bill O'Reilly when he was interviewed on NPR (liberal artsy radio station) and I was impressed - that one made some waves because he actually got up and walked out the interview in disgust, but fair play they still aired it. But like Pat Robertson and others, he turned out to be a fake conservative. Shame really.

Smidgey · 19-11-2007, 07:11 PM

Yeah, I think Jesse Ventura called him a chickenhawk.

Anywho, here is the video - sadly I couldn't find the one from his studio webcam, but here is the sound clip:

YouTube - Ron Paul supporter call into Sean...

19-11-2007, 04:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
For_England Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,850	Liberty Dollar raided by feds Raid target: 'This is war' Liberty Dollar founder says, 'I intend to win' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: November 17, 2007 1:00 a.m. Eastern By Bob Unruh © 2007 WorldNetDaily.com The government's raid shutting down the Evansville, Ind., offices of Liberty Dollar was a declaration of war, company founder Bernard von NotHaus says. But the confiscation of its stockpiles of gold, silver and coins also was just the "first battle of a long war that I intend to win!" The company makes and distributes Liberty Dollar coins in various denominations and had announced that it had been closed down by a raid of FBI and U.S. Secret Service officers who confiscated gold, silver, platinum, coins, documents, "everything but the desks and chairs." "For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum, and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that were just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files and computers and froze our bank accounts," von NotHaus wrote in an urgent notification of the situation to supporters. Federal authorities in the U.S. attorney's office in North Carolina, to whom WND was referred when the FBI and Secret Service were questioned, continued to decline to release information about their case, although they admitted the action took place. But von NotHaus followed up with a detailed explanation of what was going on, and posted on the internet documents supporting his claims. "Make no mistake, the FBI and Secret Service raid on the Liberty Dollar … was a direct assault against the U.S. Constitution and your right to own and use gold and silver in any way you choose," he said. "I personally spoke to FBI agent Andrew Romagnuolo shortly after he and his gang invaded the peaceful home of the Liberty Dollar. He told me that the raid was related to the U.S. Mint's warning and the beginning of a criminal investigation." The Mint, some weeks earlier, had posted on its website a warning that "the use of these gold and silver … 'Liberty Dollar' medallions as circulating money is federal crime." "The United States Mint urges consumers who are considering the purchase or use of these items to be aware that they are not genuine United States Mint bullion coins and they are not legal tender," the Mint said. "'Liberty Dollar' medallions are specifically intended to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with the circulating coinage of the United States," the Mint said. "Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that use of … 'Liberty Dollar' medallions violates [federal law.]" Von NotHaus challenges that with the posting of correspondence on his website from Edmond C. Moy, director of the U.S. Mint, that his company's paper certificates are "not covered by the Title 18, Section 486 and hence legal." So there was no need for the raid to confiscate "all the gold and silver that backs the paper and digital currencies," he said. "No need, unless the government knew their ... case didn't have a snowball's chance … of winning and needed to expand their case into the never-never land of mail fraud, wire fraud and money laundering as mentioned in the seizure warrant," von NotHaus said. The seizure warrant signed by Magistrate Judge Dennis Howell of Asheville, N.C., noted that the FBI specifically was ordered to confiscate "American Liberty Dollar and/or Hawaii Dala currency and/or precious metals of gold, silver, copper, platinum or other substance and United States currency" because it is "involved in, or traceable to, money laundering … or mail fraud." "I anticipate being arrested on any one or all of these charges," von NotHaus said. But he continued. "I see my arrest and trial as a golden opportunity to win and return our great country to a value based currency. … I believe the Liberty Dollar will win and become one of the great institutions in America. I have devoted the past 10 years to the Liberty Dollar and am willing to risk a few years in federal prison to vindicate it." He said a class action lawsuit is being assembled for those who have the coins, or had purchased them and were awaiting delivery, and a legal defense fund will be established soon to pursue the case. Forum participants on the issue didn't hold back on their feelings: "I'm so tired of people claiming that the U.S. is still the best country in the world, love it or leave it, etc. FREEDOM IS NOT RELALTIVE! You are free or your are a slave. We are slaves. I'm in the 15 percent salve bracket. Which one are you in?" wrote "New Guard." "It is frightening to see our U.S.A. has so many sadly ignorant (or maybe overly self-medicated) readers calling precious metals (like silver and gold) 'fake' and 'good ol' greenbacks' from that privately-held company we call the Federal Reserve who sells debt notes (not backed by gold or silver, but rather fiat currency) as real," added Timothy4USA. Von NotHaus earlier said since the company has no money, no products and not even any records, he did not know when, if ever, operations would resume. Company information says von NotHaus developed the Liberty Dollar in 1998 as an "inflation-proof" alternative currency to Federal Reserve Notes. The U.S. government, however, historically has taken a dim view of anything monetary that could be perceived as substituting for Federal Reserve Notes. Authorities have attacked such alternatives as counterfeiting, while supporters of such bartering tools attack the Federal Reserve Notes as fakes. That opinion was shared by Lance Haverkamp, who joined in a forum at the Courier-Press newspaper on the issue. "Do you realize how stupid it is to say the green stuff is 'real' and the gold & silver is 'fake'… You must work for the government!" he wrote. The organization explained its position like this: "It's incredible how few people know the facts about the Federal Reserve. The organization chaired by Ben Bernanke is not 'Federal' – it is instead a cabal of private and international banks that does not answer to the United States government. And while there is some precious metal stored in Fort Knox, it doesn't back the debt based 'fiat' U.S. dollar that they issue, because nothing backs it except your trust in the system! Even a casual look at the Fed's history leads one to wonder how an institution that profits mightily from its own policies of victimizing Americans has maintained control over the money of the wealthiest nation on Earth. For those who have made a serious inquiry, the Federal Reserve is shadowed in deceptive origins and fraudulent policies." Its alternative is a series of coins made of precious metals that can be exchanged for an assigned dollar amount. Over its history, the company has produced the California Bear, Chambersburg Dollar, Evansville Dollar, Hawaii Dala, Peace Dollar and the new Ron Paul Dollar, among others. The company posts testimonies from those who have used the Liberties. "I am writing this to Liberty Dollar in hopes that it can be used to help with support," wrote a fan, M. Symonds, of Dallas, Texas, who reported using the coinage for $700 expenses on a trip to Austin. "My entire trip was funded with The Liberty Dollar. It used it everywhere I went. … I am here to tell you that the major chains and businesses will accept them. Here is a list of some of the places I used them: Joe's Fina Mart, Placido, Texas; James Texaco, Lolita, Texas; Jack In The Box, Austin, Texas; Chevron, Schulenburg, Texas; McDonalds, Port Lavaca, Texas, Wal-Mart, Port Lavaca, Texas; Reeds Grocery, Odem, Texas…" "The only catch is that as the Liberty Dollar is voluntary, your bank may not accept it for deposit," the company website said. "Of course, this also means that money cannot be siphoned away from your community by big box retailers. The Liberty Dollar is designed to stay in your community of origin for the advantage of the community." For example, a construction worker is paid a $20 Liberty for services, he then takes it to a grocery story for $20 in groceries. The store owner pays a local utility bill with the coin, and that coin then goes to a utility company employee for wages. That employee then pays it back to the construction worker for a remodeling project.

19-11-2007, 05:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
Smidgey Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,210 Party: Libertarian Party	They had the whole show of Wednesday's Free Talk Live taken up by this one topic alone (thats three hours). On Thursday they had Bernard von NotHaus on the show. He said hes going to fight it the whole way. They have already set up a donation scheme on their website to prepare the legal case. __________________ How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might! -Georg Friedrich Händel

19-11-2007, 06:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
Smidgey Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,210 Party: Libertarian Party	Ahh. The joys of talk radio . Have you seen the clip where a Ron Paul supporter phones up Hannity and tells him that a Republican has received the most troop donations? Hannity looks like he's about to wet himself with joy until the caller tells him it was Ron Paul. __________________ How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might! -Georg Friedrich Händel

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19-11-2007, 05:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
jgrabham Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 294	Honestly the right to have money which is actually worth something... the audacity.

19-11-2007, 05:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
For_England Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,850	I haven't tuned in to Rush Limbaurgh recently. I wonder what his take is on it.

19-11-2007, 07:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
For_England Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,850	I will have to look for that - seeing Hannity's face fall for a change would really be something! Alot of the evangelicals over here love Fox news. Some have their heads screwed on though. I first heard Bill O'Reilly when he was interviewed on NPR (liberal artsy radio station) and I was impressed - that one made some waves because he actually got up and walked out the interview in disgust, but fair play they still aired it. But like Pat Robertson and others, he turned out to be a fake conservative. Shame really.