Is this the democracy

John Carter · 06-07-2006, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intbel

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Carter

Right. So explain the difference between the pub landlord and the private security guard that this thread is about and tell me how either of these people has anything to do with the status of democracy in their respective countries.

The security guard claimed the guy was protestuing - when he wasn't.
Crass stupidity

The landlord refused to serve me 'cos simply because of my mode of transport, or maybe the mode of dress adopted by motorcyclists.
Crass stupidity

Okay - they have a democratic right to be stupid.
Others have a democratic right to respond appropriately.

So, you'll agree that this was, in fact, nothing at all to do with democracy being slightly less than acceptable - and that it was, in fact, simply the democratic right of any business/organisation to eject people from their premises being exercised.

Case closed.

mkpdavies · 06-07-2006, 11:44 PM

I know they have the right to do a citizens arrest, for theiving etc.,

I'm not sure wearing a peace t-shirt is an offence, no matter where you are. Certainly not one they can arrest and fine you for.

If they are just security guards, what are they going on about with court appearances and charges?

John Carter · 06-07-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

I know they have the right to do a citizens arrest, for theiving etc.,

I'm not sure wearing a peace t-shirt is an offence, no matter where you are. Certainly not one they can arrest and fine you for.

If they are just security guards, what are they going on about with court appearances and charges?

The guy wasn't arrested for wearing a t-shirt. The guy was arrested for not leaving when asked.

Essentially, these guys are military security (as I understand it, the institution is under military jurisdiction) so they're more like a militarised version of your Tesco security guard.

It's the military's house - they set the house rules (in the same way that Ant sets the house rules here and your Mrs sets the house rules at your house). If they ask you to leave because they don't like what you're wearing, you leave. Simple as that.

Absolutely nowt to do with any type of failure of democracy.

mkpdavies · 07-07-2006, 12:16 AM

Did they have a valid reason for asking him to leave?

They had just taken his money for a service and he was quitely using that services.

There were no signs saying no hippies, and they were happy enough to take his money.

I think he has a strong case and will win.

However, you have a valid point in this is a special situation, rather than the norm. It's an issue on a local level, rather than an overall one.

John Carter · 07-07-2006, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Did they have a valid reason for asking him to leave?

Yes - they didn't like his T-shirt. Their house, their rules.

mkpdavies · 07-07-2006, 12:22 AM

Shouldn't have sold him product then!

Can't have it both ways.

John Carter · 07-07-2006, 12:24 AM

I'm reminded of a year back when some idiot was refused boarding to a plane because she had a T-shirt on which read "F*** Bush" (or similar).

All the lefties were out in force whining about restrictions on free speech and democracy was dying and all that. End of the civilised world, etc..

But same rules apply: Airline's house, airline's rules.

(The terms and conditions of carriage on the airline's web site did actually state that no offensive clothing could be worn. Didn't deter the lefties from screaming blue murder though.)

John Carter · 07-07-2006, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Shouldn't have sold him product then!

Can't have it both ways.

Yes you can. If your landlord feels like booting you out for whatever reason he likes three seconds after you've bought a pint, he can.

mkpdavies · 07-07-2006, 12:27 AM

That's fair enough, but slightly different, in that they didn't sell him the product with the full knowledge he was going to be wearing the t-shirt.

It is slightly more offensive than peace (though I understand not to neocons).

mkpdavies · 07-07-2006, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Carter

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Shouldn't have sold him product then!

Can't have it both ways.

Yes you can. If your landlord feels like booting you out for whatever reason he likes three seconds after you've bought a pint, he can.

I don't think so!

The courts would look at that as sharp practice. Selling a service, with no intention to supply.

06-07-2006, 11:44 PM	#12 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	I know they have the right to do a citizens arrest, for theiving etc., I'm not sure wearing a peace t-shirt is an offence, no matter where you are. Certainly not one they can arrest and fine you for. If they are just security guards, what are they going on about with court appearances and charges? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

07-07-2006, 12:16 AM	#14 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	Did they have a valid reason for asking him to leave? They had just taken his money for a service and he was quitely using that services. There were no signs saying no hippies, and they were happy enough to take his money. I think he has a strong case and will win. However, you have a valid point in this is a special situation, rather than the norm. It's an issue on a local level, rather than an overall one. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

07-07-2006, 12:22 AM	#16 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	Shouldn't have sold him product then! Can't have it both ways. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

07-07-2006, 12:27 AM	#19 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	That's fair enough, but slightly different, in that they didn't sell him the product with the full knowledge he was going to be wearing the t-shirt. It is slightly more offensive than peace (though I understand not to neocons). __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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07-07-2006, 12:24 AM	#17 (permalink)
John Carter Uber Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: On Sabbatical Posts: 5,110	I'm reminded of a year back when some idiot was refused boarding to a plane because she had a T-shirt on which read "F*** Bush" (or similar). All the lefties were out in force whining about restrictions on free speech and democracy was dying and all that. End of the civilised world, etc.. But same rules apply: Airline's house, airline's rules. (The terms and conditions of carriage on the airline's web site did actually state that no offensive clothing could be worn. Didn't deter the lefties from screaming blue murder though.)