The Da Vinci code has nothing on this!

adrianwainer · 06-06-2006, 09:25 PM

Sceptical of the existance of the anti-christ, take a look at the Palestinian media!

http://pmw.org.il/

check out:

TV Archives - Video Library
PA Indoctrination of Children to Seek
Heroic Death for Allah - Shahada

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

mkpdavies · 06-06-2006, 09:28 PM

Well it is a hellhole to live in.

Bentley Turbo · 12-06-2006, 07:32 AM

Who says the Palestinian Arabs are innocent?

Don't believe everything you read in the papers!

Aardvark · 13-06-2006, 08:03 AM

In which papers does it say 'The Palestinian Arabs are innocent.'?

Innocent of what?

Some are innocent, some are guilty, but of what we don't know. I'm not sure there has ever been a real attempt to understand the Fourth Protocol to the Geneva Convention.

Basically all settlements on land seized in 1967 are unlawful and the Palestinians who seek to remove them have the same historic moral rectitude as the resistance movements in occupied Europe during WWII. The French Resistance are not considered terrorists for the hundreds of killings they perpetrated on occupiers and collaborators. From that perspective it is arguable that the Palestinians are right to resist the continuing seizure of their land.

When people say that Israel is recognised by the international community they should remember that Chamberlain recognised, at Munich, the occupation of Czechoslovakia (a far off land of which we know little). Russia approved of the occupation of Western Poland, having grabbed East Poland/West Belarussia for itself. 'International recognition' of 'facts on the ground' is not always morally right.

adrianwainer · 13-06-2006, 08:08 PM

http://www.memorial-vercors.fr/

Aardvark wrote

Quote:

Basically all settlements on land seized in 1967 are unlawful and the Palestinians who seek to remove them have the same historic moral rectitude as the resistance movements in occupied Europe during WWII. The French Resistance are not considered terrorists for the hundreds of killings they perpetrated on occupiers and collaborators. From that perspective it is arguable that the Palestinians are right to resist the continuing seizure of their land.

I would suggest a more accurate model to equate the Palestinan Islamofascist Arab Racial Supremacist Project with, would be Vichy France or the King Leopold of the Belgians in the Congo rather than the French Resistance and Maquis, sorry excuse me if I am wrong but I thought the French Resistance was fighting the Nazis!

They kill their own, too. And the world expects "peace"?
http://www.sullivan-county.com/w/cul_death.htm

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

Bentley Turbo · 14-06-2006, 07:07 AM

it's a war zone, for heaven's sake!

You don't take your family picnicking in a war zone, and if people do, you have to ask whether it was a set -up - AQ & the Islamists understand propaganda and are always on the lookout for 'innocent victims'. either these people were completely insane (it's the Gaza Strip, not the Peak District!!) , or some one put them up to it, either to deter Israli fire to protect terrorist units further in from the beach, or because they wanted dead kiddies for the evening news.

Collaterals are sad, but with a cowardly enemy determined to hide behind women and children there are going to be collaterals.

The media and the public need to grow up a little bit - we're in a war, the bad guys started it on 9-11, or with the Intifada, they do not give a damn about killing women and children, we do, and we are sad about it, but we must not let fear of inflicting collateral casualties hold back our Armed Forces - some are inevitable. Sad but true.

Aardvark · 14-06-2006, 11:41 AM

AW - The French Resistance were also fighting those who collaborated with the occupation. France was indeed occupied by the Nazis and the French had every right to resist.

Under the terms of the 4th Protocol of the Geneva Convention it is unlawful to settle civilians in occupied territory. Thyere are several UN resolutions calling for a return to the pre-1967 ceasefire line. The Palestinian resistance has international law on its side.

The refugee camps set up for Palestinians after 1948 are still occupied by the families of the original refugees from the Israeli occupation of their homes and are run by UNRAW. Although Israel was set up with international co-operation, nobody asked the Arab occupants of what is now Israel whether they were happy with the arrangement. It was always going to lead to bloodshed. Israel was a post-war apology to the remaining Jews for the slow reaction of the west to deal with their terrible situation (the USA didn't even declare war on Germany). Despite what had happened to them the Jewish fathers of Israel were happy to massacre Arabs in their homes and to commit acts of terrorism (pre-9/11 the King David Hotel bombing, perpetrated by a Jewish group, was the largest terrorist act).

If post the Balfour Declaration, which was supposed to protect the rights of Arabs, there had not been mass Jewish migration to Palestine there would not have been the same antagonistic relationship between Arabs and Jews that there is today.

AW, I can't see any comparison with Vichy France and don't understand where you are coming from. The Belgian occupation of the Congo again cannot be linked. I'm clearly missing something here, but can't see the parallel between the current situation in occupied Palestine and either of those countries.

BT, Palestine is a war zone at the behest of the powers that settled Jewish people in what is now Israel. Had the 1919 arrangements for Palestine and the mandate recognised the aspirations of the Palestinians for a secular state there would not be a problem. There were a lot more Christian Arabs in the Middle East in percentage terms than there are now.

It is simplistic to link 9/11 with the aspirations of the Palestinians for a modern state. The Intifada was a direct reponse to Sharon's provocation. The provocations continue. I have seen Arab looking guys (possibly Sephardim) being held at gunpoint in the street for nothing. I have seen taxis lined up at check points at their peak times for business with all of the drivers coralled and an Israeli soldier holding their IDs to stop them working. I spent 4 months in the West Bank and the only people who ever pointed guns at me were Israelis and I was in vehicles with US diplomatic plates. For 'security' reasons the Israelis banned Palestinians in the northern half of the West Bank from driving cars. I have seen Arab buildings scheduled for demolition by Israeli occupiers so that American settlers can have the land. I have seen a middle class Christian Arab lady in tears having been slapped across the face by an Israeli soldier at a checkpoint. Her crime was not to understand an order given in Russian, the first language of over one fifth of the Israeli population, but not one understood by the native Arabs.

It is a war zone, but the war is of the Israelis own making.

The Gaza strip is the home to Palestinian Arabs. Until recently 5000 Israelis occupied 20% of the land and had all of the best beaches. The million plus Arabs have to have a life; you're right it's not the Peak District, but the Palestinians can't go there so they go to the beaches a short drive from their homes. They can't be expected to spend their every waking minute indoors on the off chance that the Israelis will bomb them again. The Gaza strip is small and cramped, but the overwhelming majority of Arabs get on with their lives despite nearly 40 years of occupation. Nobody realises that if all of the Arabs west of the Jordan were terrorists and killed one Jew each then the entire Israeli population would be dead.

Most people just want to have a normal life. Most people might well support Hamas, but you have to understand how Hamas runs the social services that the occupying power fail to provide despite their obligations under international law. People want hospitals and schools, but the Israeli occupiers don't provide them and when I was there they actually detroyed large numbers of schools in Jenin and surrounding towns.

I assume that everybody is aware that the largest recipient of overseas aid in the world is Israel. The average Israeli recives more in social security benefits from the US than the average US citizen. This doesn't even include military aid. If the US stopped international aid to Israel and directed the same funds to Africa diseases such as malaria could be virtually eliminated, but who cares about 4 million black children when the idle wasters who fill the yeshivas need subsidies so they can have dozens of kids and devote their lives to reading a few old books.

BT, I note you refer 'our' Armed forces - do you mean the IDF? I think you'll find that 'our' forces are not in Israel. Our forces are in Afghanistan and Iraq and they are not as glib as you about collateral deaths. You say 'your' forces don't like killing women and children, but collateral damage is unfortunate. For every Israeli killed during the Intifada over 5 Palestinians have died, 20% are children. Sad, but true.

UK armed forces do not return fire unless they can identify the target or unless they are under sustained effective enemy fire. The Israelis drop 1000lb bombs on civilian targets with no care about the effects.

BT, do you have citizenship of a country other than the UK? :evil:

Aardvark · 14-06-2006, 12:12 PM

Of course AW, the link you provide is funded by Israeli interests. I note use of the block alphabet and the first language other than English is Hebrew. It is a selective cull of quotes and stories designed to put the Arabs in a bad light. Are you sure that the translations are accurate?

There are indeed Arab extremists, but there are likewise Israeli ones. I used to read Ha'aretz and the Jerusalem Post. The Jerusalem Post is the paper which turned me against Israel. It is hard line anti-Arab, pro settler, pro Sharon and his ilk. The letters to the editor frightened me with talk of 'transfer' of Arabs from the West Bank at gunpoint (ethnic cleansing), annexation of over half of Jordan's inhabited area, mass castration of Arabs who didn't leave Israel when ordered etc etc. There was no talk of moderation or compromise, just death and destruction. The editorials were so racist that they would not be published in this country for fear of breaking laws on incitement.

adrianwainer · 14-06-2006, 12:15 PM

Aardvark wrote

Quote:

BT, do you have citizenship of a country other than the UK? :evil:

basically none of your business mate, and by the way is Mr Aardvark your real name seeing as you seem so interested in my nationality?

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

„Ik val aan, volg mij!”
Rear Admiral Karel Doorman Royal Netherlands Navy
Battle of the Java Sea 1942

adrianwainer · 14-06-2006, 12:25 PM

Aardvark wrote

Quote:

I spent 4 months in the West Bank and the only people who ever pointed guns at me were Israelis and I was in vehicles with US diplomatic plates.

Well if true, given the long standing tradition of the US State Department for pandering to anti-semitism and being gofers for Arab fascism [ and supporting the Third Reich during World War 2 ], I can only commend the Israeli Defence Forces for doing their job efficently and correctly.

Springtime for Appeasers

Quote:

Tolerance of European fascism was common in political circles of the 1920s and 1930s. In those pre-war days, major American business leaders maintained rich financial ties to Hitler's Third Reich and found Chamberlain's appeasement strategy to their liking.

Among these prominent Americans were Republicans Allen and John Foster Dulles, who later became CIA director and secretary of state, respectively; Democrat Joseph P. Kennedy, U.S. ambassador to Great Britain and the father of John F. Kennedy; industrialist Henry Ford; famed aviator Charles Lindbergh; and Father Charles E. Coughlin, a Catholic priest whose “America First” radio message is often cited as a forerunner to Buchanan’s populism.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/1999/120299a.html

With Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

„Ik val aan, volg mij!”
Rear Admiral Karel Doorman Royal Netherlands Navy
Battle of the Java Sea 1942

06-06-2006, 09:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
adrianwainer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 823	The Da Vinci code has nothing on this! Sceptical of the existance of the anti-christ, take a look at the Palestinian media! http://pmw.org.il/ check out: TV Archives - Video Library PA Indoctrination of Children to Seek Heroic Death for Allah - Shahada Best and Warm Regards Adrian Wainer

06-06-2006, 09:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	Well it is a hellhole to live in. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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12-06-2006, 07:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
Bentley Turbo Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 12	Who says the Palestinian Arabs are innocent? Don't believe everything you read in the papers!

13-06-2006, 08:03 AM	#4 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,928	In which papers does it say 'The Palestinian Arabs are innocent.'? Innocent of what? Some are innocent, some are guilty, but of what we don't know. I'm not sure there has ever been a real attempt to understand the Fourth Protocol to the Geneva Convention. Basically all settlements on land seized in 1967 are unlawful and the Palestinians who seek to remove them have the same historic moral rectitude as the resistance movements in occupied Europe during WWII. The French Resistance are not considered terrorists for the hundreds of killings they perpetrated on occupiers and collaborators. From that perspective it is arguable that the Palestinians are right to resist the continuing seizure of their land. When people say that Israel is recognised by the international community they should remember that Chamberlain recognised, at Munich, the occupation of Czechoslovakia (a far off land of which we know little). Russia approved of the occupation of Western Poland, having grabbed East Poland/West Belarussia for itself. 'International recognition' of 'facts on the ground' is not always morally right.

14-06-2006, 07:07 AM	#6 (permalink)
Bentley Turbo Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 12	it's a war zone, for heaven's sake! You don't take your family picnicking in a war zone, and if people do, you have to ask whether it was a set -up - AQ & the Islamists understand propaganda and are always on the lookout for 'innocent victims'. either these people were completely insane (it's the Gaza Strip, not the Peak District!!) , or some one put them up to it, either to deter Israli fire to protect terrorist units further in from the beach, or because they wanted dead kiddies for the evening news. Collaterals are sad, but with a cowardly enemy determined to hide behind women and children there are going to be collaterals. The media and the public need to grow up a little bit - we're in a war, the bad guys started it on 9-11, or with the Intifada, they do not give a damn about killing women and children, we do, and we are sad about it, but we must not let fear of inflicting collateral casualties hold back our Armed Forces - some are inevitable. Sad but true.

14-06-2006, 11:41 AM	#7 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,928	AW - The French Resistance were also fighting those who collaborated with the occupation. France was indeed occupied by the Nazis and the French had every right to resist. Under the terms of the 4th Protocol of the Geneva Convention it is unlawful to settle civilians in occupied territory. Thyere are several UN resolutions calling for a return to the pre-1967 ceasefire line. The Palestinian resistance has international law on its side. The refugee camps set up for Palestinians after 1948 are still occupied by the families of the original refugees from the Israeli occupation of their homes and are run by UNRAW. Although Israel was set up with international co-operation, nobody asked the Arab occupants of what is now Israel whether they were happy with the arrangement. It was always going to lead to bloodshed. Israel was a post-war apology to the remaining Jews for the slow reaction of the west to deal with their terrible situation (the USA didn't even declare war on Germany). Despite what had happened to them the Jewish fathers of Israel were happy to massacre Arabs in their homes and to commit acts of terrorism (pre-9/11 the King David Hotel bombing, perpetrated by a Jewish group, was the largest terrorist act). If post the Balfour Declaration, which was supposed to protect the rights of Arabs, there had not been mass Jewish migration to Palestine there would not have been the same antagonistic relationship between Arabs and Jews that there is today. AW, I can't see any comparison with Vichy France and don't understand where you are coming from. The Belgian occupation of the Congo again cannot be linked. I'm clearly missing something here, but can't see the parallel between the current situation in occupied Palestine and either of those countries. BT, Palestine is a war zone at the behest of the powers that settled Jewish people in what is now Israel. Had the 1919 arrangements for Palestine and the mandate recognised the aspirations of the Palestinians for a secular state there would not be a problem. There were a lot more Christian Arabs in the Middle East in percentage terms than there are now. It is simplistic to link 9/11 with the aspirations of the Palestinians for a modern state. The Intifada was a direct reponse to Sharon's provocation. The provocations continue. I have seen Arab looking guys (possibly Sephardim) being held at gunpoint in the street for nothing. I have seen taxis lined up at check points at their peak times for business with all of the drivers coralled and an Israeli soldier holding their IDs to stop them working. I spent 4 months in the West Bank and the only people who ever pointed guns at me were Israelis and I was in vehicles with US diplomatic plates. For 'security' reasons the Israelis banned Palestinians in the northern half of the West Bank from driving cars. I have seen Arab buildings scheduled for demolition by Israeli occupiers so that American settlers can have the land. I have seen a middle class Christian Arab lady in tears having been slapped across the face by an Israeli soldier at a checkpoint. Her crime was not to understand an order given in Russian, the first language of over one fifth of the Israeli population, but not one understood by the native Arabs. It is a war zone, but the war is of the Israelis own making. The Gaza strip is the home to Palestinian Arabs. Until recently 5000 Israelis occupied 20% of the land and had all of the best beaches. The million plus Arabs have to have a life; you're right it's not the Peak District, but the Palestinians can't go there so they go to the beaches a short drive from their homes. They can't be expected to spend their every waking minute indoors on the off chance that the Israelis will bomb them again. The Gaza strip is small and cramped, but the overwhelming majority of Arabs get on with their lives despite nearly 40 years of occupation. Nobody realises that if all of the Arabs west of the Jordan were terrorists and killed one Jew each then the entire Israeli population would be dead. Most people just want to have a normal life. Most people might well support Hamas, but you have to understand how Hamas runs the social services that the occupying power fail to provide despite their obligations under international law. People want hospitals and schools, but the Israeli occupiers don't provide them and when I was there they actually detroyed large numbers of schools in Jenin and surrounding towns. I assume that everybody is aware that the largest recipient of overseas aid in the world is Israel. The average Israeli recives more in social security benefits from the US than the average US citizen. This doesn't even include military aid. If the US stopped international aid to Israel and directed the same funds to Africa diseases such as malaria could be virtually eliminated, but who cares about 4 million black children when the idle wasters who fill the yeshivas need subsidies so they can have dozens of kids and devote their lives to reading a few old books. BT, I note you refer 'our' Armed forces - do you mean the IDF? I think you'll find that 'our' forces are not in Israel. Our forces are in Afghanistan and Iraq and they are not as glib as you about collateral deaths. You say 'your' forces don't like killing women and children, but collateral damage is unfortunate. For every Israeli killed during the Intifada over 5 Palestinians have died, 20% are children. Sad, but true. UK armed forces do not return fire unless they can identify the target or unless they are under sustained effective enemy fire. The Israelis drop 1000lb bombs on civilian targets with no care about the effects. BT, do you have citizenship of a country other than the UK? :evil:

14-06-2006, 12:12 PM	#8 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,928	Of course AW, the link you provide is funded by Israeli interests. I note use of the block alphabet and the first language other than English is Hebrew. It is a selective cull of quotes and stories designed to put the Arabs in a bad light. Are you sure that the translations are accurate? There are indeed Arab extremists, but there are likewise Israeli ones. I used to read Ha'aretz and the Jerusalem Post. The Jerusalem Post is the paper which turned me against Israel. It is hard line anti-Arab, pro settler, pro Sharon and his ilk. The letters to the editor frightened me with talk of 'transfer' of Arabs from the West Bank at gunpoint (ethnic cleansing), annexation of over half of Jordan's inhabited area, mass castration of Arabs who didn't leave Israel when ordered etc etc. There was no talk of moderation or compromise, just death and destruction. The editorials were so racist that they would not be published in this country for fear of breaking laws on incitement.