Traveler agitated before boarding jet

mkpdavies · 11-12-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christina

You cannot disclose medical history to people without permission. It is the same law that GPs have to follow when you fill in a form to an insurance company, for example, allowing the GP to give them medical details.

I don't think that applies to anyone other than your doctor. I didn't sign any Hippocratic Oath.

As for the terrorists pretending to be mental. So what are you saying, mentaly disabled people shouldn't be able to fly or they should just except they will be shot?

Christina · 11-12-2005, 11:47 AM

Well, that's the problem with the check-in expectation of his wife. It wouldn't work.

The only thing that check-in staff could do, is decide he is too ill to board the plane. If his behaviour was such that other passengers just thought him a bit agitated, well that's not sufficient justification. If he was ranting it would be.

Basically, if his behaviour was such that it was like someone who had been drinking and too intoxicated to board the plane, then that would have worked, but unfortunately that didn't seem to happen until later, when he bolted. It may have been the sight of the armed Marshalls that triggered his running, he may have thought they were after him. That can happen. We just don't know.

It's a tragedy and I think blame is not appropriate, especially to the wife who has just had her husband killed.

Christina · 11-12-2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christina

You cannot disclose medical history to people without permission. It is the same law that GPs have to follow when you fill in a form to an insurance company, for example, allowing the GP to give them medical details.

I don't think that applies to anyone other than your doctor. I didn't sign any Hippocratic Oath.

It has nothing to do with the Hippocratic Oath, which is to do no harm.

Quote:

As for the terrorists pretending to be mental. So what are you saying, mentaly disabled people shouldn't be able to fly or they should just except they will be shot?

Wow, are those the only options you can think of? Since when was Bipolar a mental disability?

Check-in staff, nor anyone else, can take a person's word that another person suffers Bipolar anyway. It would have to be a Doctor, Psychiatrist, Approved Social Worker.

Most people with Bipolar are stable people most of the time, the problems happen when they have an episode which results in depression or a high known as hypomania (below mania)

It is exactly the same situation as anyone who does not suffer any illness. It is determined by behaviour. If someone spiked your drink with speed before you checked-in, and the effects hadn't started by the time you had checked-in, but hit you later, the staff would have to deal with the resulting erratic behaviour. If you got angry and said you had a bomb, you could be shot.

It wasn't the illness that killed him, it was the threat he had a bomb.

mkpdavies · 11-12-2005, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Since when was Bipolar a mental disability?

What is it then?

Quote:

Wow, are those the only options you can think of?

They were the first two to spring INTO phpbb_my mind. You are amazed easily at your assumptions.

Quote:

Check-in staff, nor anyone else, can take a person's word that another person suffers Bipolar anyway. It would have to be a Doctor, Psychiatrist, Approved Social Worker.

********. The only reason you are telling them is to make them aware the passanger might behave in an usual way. They can choose to take some immediete steps to help, adivise security or whatever. Maybe even stop an innocent person being killed.

Quote:

It is exactly the same situation as anyone who does not suffer any illness. It is determined by behaviour. If someone spiked your drink with speed before you checked-in, and the effects hadn't started by the time you had checked-in, but hit you later, the staff would have to deal with the resulting erratic behaviour. If you got angry and said you had a bomb, you could be shot.

Which would be very unfortunate, but is on of the reasons I don't like the idea of routinely arming law enforcers with lethal force.

Quote:

It wasn't the illness that killed him, it was the threat he had a bomb.

Every single passanger has the threat of carrying a bomb to some degree.

Christina · 11-12-2005, 12:44 PM

Bipolar is a mental illness, not a mental disability. It is a serious mood disorder. There are different types.

Christina · 11-12-2005, 12:46 PM

Quote:

It wasn't the illness that killed him, it was the threat he had a bomb.

I meant, he actually told them he had a bomb.

mkpdavies · 11-12-2005, 01:41 PM

Quote:

I meant, he actually told them he had a bomb.

Alledgedly. If that is proven as true, then they had no option. Though questions should still be asked on why someone with a mental disorder/disability was allowed on board.

BTW, calling it a disorder is just PC language for me. It effects his ability to function, so it's a disability for me. I have asthma, which effects my ability to brethe on occasions. I'm not frightend to call it a disability.

Christina · 11-12-2005, 01:58 PM

You know, 'learning disability' is what we used to call 'mental handicap.'

It's because of this that I wouldn't think of asthma as a disability, as I equate disability with handicap. A permanent state, not something that affects a person on and off.

A person with Bipolar isn't always ill. Some of the posts on this thread give me the impression it is being looked at as if they are always ill.

It isn't like Down's Syndrome, which is a disability and is permanent. Neither do I distinguish because of any stigma. I used to work with severely disabled people.

I think the medical profession would distinguish between disability and illness and some conditions, in that the first is untreatable, whereas the last 2 are treatable.

The benefit system however, does include mental illness in its disability allowances, while the illness is such that a person cannot work due to the illness.

No definitions are set in stone I guess, they'll be called something else in 20 years time. It will have been the 7th change too, at least.

mkpdavies · 11-12-2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

disability with handicap.

Word play again. PC derived in an attempt to not cause offence. I am handicaped. If I try to run against someone without asthma, all other things being equal, then I have less chance of winning. A handicap.

Spastic has become a bad word too, it moved on to retarded, now that's bad too.

If people didn't get so upset at words, we wouldn't have all this confusion.

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11-12-2005, 11:47 AM	#32 (permalink)
Christina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eccleston, St Helens Posts: 1,529	Well, that's the problem with the check-in expectation of his wife. It wouldn't work. The only thing that check-in staff could do, is decide he is too ill to board the plane. If his behaviour was such that other passengers just thought him a bit agitated, well that's not sufficient justification. If he was ranting it would be. Basically, if his behaviour was such that it was like someone who had been drinking and too intoxicated to board the plane, then that would have worked, but unfortunately that didn't seem to happen until later, when he bolted. It may have been the sight of the armed Marshalls that triggered his running, he may have thought they were after him. That can happen. We just don't know. It's a tragedy and I think blame is not appropriate, especially to the wife who has just had her husband killed.

11-12-2005, 12:44 PM	#35 (permalink)
Christina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eccleston, St Helens Posts: 1,529	Bipolar is a mental illness, not a mental disability. It is a serious mood disorder. There are different types.

11-12-2005, 01:58 PM	#38 (permalink)
Christina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eccleston, St Helens Posts: 1,529	You know, 'learning disability' is what we used to call 'mental handicap.' It's because of this that I wouldn't think of asthma as a disability, as I equate disability with handicap. A permanent state, not something that affects a person on and off. A person with Bipolar isn't always ill. Some of the posts on this thread give me the impression it is being looked at as if they are always ill. It isn't like Down's Syndrome, which is a disability and is permanent. Neither do I distinguish because of any stigma. I used to work with severely disabled people. I think the medical profession would distinguish between disability and illness and some conditions, in that the first is untreatable, whereas the last 2 are treatable. The benefit system however, does include mental illness in its disability allowances, while the illness is such that a person cannot work due to the illness. No definitions are set in stone I guess, they'll be called something else in 20 years time. It will have been the 7th change too, at least.